10 - Forsythe Family Farms
Hey there. Welcome to the Farm Educators Roadmap. I'm Christa Hein, former nonprofit girl turned farm education entrepreneur. I've spent the last 30 years creating hands-on programs that connect people to the land animals, and the traditions that nourish our daily lives. If you're listening, you probably believe what I do, that farm education is needed now more than ever. Not just on rural farms, but in suburbs, cities, and everywhere in-between. In this podcast, you'll hear real stories and practical advice from farm educators all across the country, people who are creating change through their programs in creative and inspiring ways.
Whether you're dreaming about starting your first program, are already knee deep in your own farm education work, or are just curious about how others are impacting their communities through farm education, you're in the right place. Let's dig in.
Christa Hein: I'm Christa Hein, and today I'm excited to introduce a very special guest, Leslie Forsythe of Forsythe Family Farms in Ontario, Canada. Leslie and her husband Jim, run a thriving 50 acre farm that's not just about growing fruits, veggies, and raising poultry.
It's an agritourism destination packed with hands-on learning experiences. With over 30 years in farm education, Leslie has created a rich and immersive program for visitors on her farm including school tours, toddler programs, and even digital educational resources. Today, we'll dive into her journey as a farm educator, how she's adapted to the changing landscape of agritourism, and what she's learned about making farm education both engaging and sustainable. If you're looking for inspiration from a diverse farm, this episode is for you. Leslie, welcome to the show!
Leslie Forsythe: Thank you. Nice to be here.
Christa Hein: So I want to start by asking you to share a little bit about your background and how you got into farming and became a farm educator.
Leslie Forsythe: Oh, okay. Well, if you look at my family history, we do have farming in our background. My grandparents were settlers out in Saskatchewan. So they were kind of pioneers out there, but when the dust bowl and the depression came, my grandfather came out here to Ontario. I just grew up at a small town not big city girl. There was always gardening, big gardens in our family.
My mom was always a been composter and grew a lot of the vegetables that we ate. So it wasn't unknown, but, I went onto a profession in physiotherapy, and it was on a vacation that I met my husband who was a farmer. He's actually first-generation farmer and we started together.
He was already had been already in direct marketing, which is selling directly to the public and farming fruits and vegetables when I met him. And the first year that we were together was the last year at the location he was in because being first generation, he couldn't afford land to buy.
So when we moved up to Kennedy Road location in Markham, which is about half an hour, three quarters of an hour from downtown Toronto. So we were close to a big population base. We were able to convert the bottom part of a barn into a market. Well, we were hidden, and that was the days before internet and the websites and all that so people couldn't find us. And so that's how we got into agritourism was to create a destination so that people would come enjoy the farm, but also buy what we grow, and pick your own was a big part of our business at the beginning of agritourism when a lot of people were harvesting to preserve.
And not so much now it's entertainment. So it's just evolved over the years and we were very fortunate to join Ontario Farm Fresh Marketing Association, which is a group of direct farm marketers and just a lot of learning happening there because I was not a business person. I was not really a farmer so there was a lot for me to learn and for a lot for us to grow into. And so we were kind of one of the early agritourism destinations in our area. We had a teacher ask me after a few years - could I bring my class to pick a pumpkin? And so it kind of goes from there.
Christa Hein: Yeah. I was going to ask like what was that transition between creating a fun farm experience to inviting schools and having school field trips like you offer now?
Leslie Forsythe: Well, it was that one teacher, that class and it all went from there. So I was initially doing all the tours. And I mean, we've always picked the pumpkins, piled them in the field to protect them from frost.
And climate change is really helping us in that area that we don't have as much frost on our pumpkins anymore. But it kind of be both like I enjoy working with people and so to know that there's a certain number of people coming and they're paying this much and they're doing this and they're leaving at this time is so much better than retail and waiting there for somebody to show up, and decide, oh, okay.You know, and gotta be staffed. So, it didn't take too many years for me to need help and I was very fortunate to have two lovely ladies help me. One was a teacher and she helped me kind of finesse our program. So it was very curriculum connected.
Christa Hein: Nice.
Leslie Forsythe: The other lady was from the theater and music background so she booked bums in seats.
Christa Hein: That theater aspect I found in my own business so helpful. Like, yes, you wanna give kids information, but you also have to keep their attention and get them stimulated and teach it in a way that is interesting to them.
Leslie Forsythe: Yeah for sure. They can sit in the classroom and the teacher can teach them the same things, but they don't have the smells, they don't have the sights, they don't have the sounds. But also the activity like just being outside and doing things. It was great because you kind of get into a bit of a rhythm with your lessons and I don't script any of our lessons. My instructors all have their own strengths and they all do it in their own way, but I've had singers, I've actually had a drama teacher. And she loved to get the drama and story times mixed in with everything. And they became lessons that stuck. Like we just you know, learning that sticks because there's so much more than just sitting and listening and writing paper. And that's the beauty of farms. I mean, it's a natural classroom.
Christa Hein: Mm-hmm.
Leslie Forsythe: And we just take what are the strengths of our farm. So were in Markham for about 27 years before they terminated our lease. Already by then we had been able to buy a farm further north, so we're about an hour and a half northeast of Toronto, and so we would been working while we still were in Markham, we'd been working on getting the farm ready for opening up once we got kicked out because it was always inevitable that with development and urbanization, Markham's the thriving city, it's a city now, whereas it was a town before, but also too, having it as our own place, we were able to put in some warm rooms, plant lots of trees, and make it very, you know, lots of shelter and some. We've got a maze and you know a whole bunch of different things that we knew we could do because we were gonna be there permanently.
Christa Hein: And how long have you been at this farm?
Leslie Forsythe: Were able to buy the farm in 97
Christa Hein:. It's a long time.
Leslie Forsythe: It's a long time now. It's just blown by. And we opened up here exclusively in 2014. Because that the end of 2013 they said out of Markham. So it was a bit of a transition time. We lost a lot of our downtown, westend Toronto schools, because of the distance. So they're gradually coming back. We've kind of gone through phases. If we only do a pumpkin tour and you've got two hours and that but with an hour driving here and an hour driving home it was too far for a four hour tour, which we have tried especially in Markham, we would start to do workshops because it would be more evolving with the instructors that I had that had knowledge they were really deep into nature and so they would we would add a forest component.We had a habitat, we did a weather program. We've done soil programs. We had a really great soil workshop. And so with all that, we kind of go from offering a lot to what's possible up here. And we do a three hour tour and we were doing some of the specialty workshops still, but condensed them into three hours, but then COVID hit and that changed everything.
Christa Hein: Now with so many different activities and programs, which do you think have been the most impactful? Which are your favorite and that you definitely want to just keep offering?
Leslie Forsythe: So I kind of like them all, but for grades three and fours, you'd have to have a lot more knowledge than you do for the primary grades. And I like the little guys. I don't like the toddlers, but I do have a lady that just loves toddlers. So we started our toddler program up again. I like them being around because I figure you gotta start kids young. I've seen customers, they bring their children. They've never seen like even a bunny, and they kind of scream because it moved.
So I know the importance of starting early. And as I age, my energy gets less. So I do a few tours if I have to, but I do have quite a group of very talented ladies that just love doing it. We did the videos, we made lessons from the farm to develop our programs and help enhance them. Shelburne Farms in Vermont has been quite a rich source of information and lessons and I highly recommend them to anybody who's looking for enhancing what activities they do on the farm.
Yes, and I've gone to a number of their workshops and taken some of my instructors with me and that's been great. They really get into it and they're so creative, but also too, we met them through a farm tour with Ontario Farm Fresh Marketing and they did the activity dress a cow with us. And that really stuck in my mind that it's such a fun way to do parts of the animal and it's so adaptable. We have dress a plant, dress a cow, dress a bee, dress a sheep.
Not that you do them all with one group, but depending on the season. And so, they get on the bus and say, well, we're a nonprofit organization, one of our members on the bus goes, so are we now, mind you nonprofit and not making a profit are two different things.
But, I think that because of that and the funding they have, like, it's just an amazing facility and I just, really appreciate all that they've done. That's kind of been really foundational in enhancing our program here. So we did the farm videos - did a series of six videos. We did animals, plants, eggs, bees, habitat and soil, and they’re five, six minutes each. Just activities that we did on the farm that originally was, well people can buy the access to them during COVID so they can use them in the schools. And we did try marketing them. It wasn't all that successful.
We didn't have a lot of backing, so they weren't big budget films and that's kind of evolved now into they are now accessible to teachers who book here.
Christa Hein: So you use them as like a pre or post visit, or both?
Leslie Forsythe: That's both. So when they book and I send them the confirmation letter, they will have access links to these videos.
Not all teachers use them, but some do. You can tell the kids that have seen them cause I always get a big wave and farmer Jim was very good about being the bee and the plant so that's turned out very well. And I think the biggest thing with those videos is that my grandchildren, one was born during COVID and the other two were so young and I guess I could say it's a vanity project because they still knew me because they were forever watching the videos even though I might've seen them just three times that year. So that was really cool.
Christa Hein: So you have a lot of things going on on the farm. You do these farm market, pick your own, you have the online market and attend farmer's market. How do all your different sales channels work together with the education programs. And you live on site as well?
Leslie Forsythe: We do.
Christa Hein: How does that all balance?
Leslie Forsythe: Well, commute time is short, so that's really good. Jim is a grower. He wants to grow but in order, like he has done wholesale before and that's when you're a price taker and he long ago decided he wanted to be a price maker. So with him growing, we've gotta figure out a sales avenue. And so our CSA, my son started that when he was 19, just outta high school. And he wasn't ready to go to college, but he wanted to do something to be part of a farm. And he developed a CSA program so that he could have an enterprise that was linked with the farm, but it was his. He actually took a lot of our market customers at that time. But to start, but it was great. It was just kind of coming back into popularity. It had gone out for quite a while. It was kind of a hippie dippy thing when like all that was on the farm that week was lettuce, you got a box of lettuce and that kind of turned a lot of people off. So with our market we've decided long ago that you can't grow everything. So we always connect and partner with other farmers in the area so that we have a good selection. And that was the basis of his CSA. We may not grow it, but it is local.
So if we have lettuce that week we could also have carrots and celery and that from other farmers that are within driving distance of us. So that's a way for people to connect directly to the farm members. He's now moved on and he's now a psychotherapist, so neither of our boys wanted to be part of the, like, to carry on the farming.
They say it's too much work for too little money. So I have a carpenter and a psychotherapist, one hands on and one very academic. So we took over his CSA, and so that's one way that we can sell what we grow. Our on-farm market, he's been an on-farm market since about the mid seventies.
Christa Hein: Nice.
Leslie Forsythe: That's why we had to be a destination so that people would come to our farm market. But the agritourism evolved because we had to get them there. After the move, the first move and that grew and grew because it is fun. It's a lot of fun. The education was because of a teacher, but the education to the public, I started noticing like we were so focused on teaching the kids and the parents would say like, they'd point to a Turkey look, there's a duck. And I’m going – that’s not a duck.
I think parents need to learn too. We had this lovely young lady who was a zoology student when she started with us and I said, she drew a few things. I said, oh, you think you can do us a big sign that people could put their heads through? She says I think I could paint that.
And she really did a good job. She stayed with us for 20 years and her artwork just gave an a very individualistic look to the place. Like she was absolutely amazing. She went on to teach at an art school and teach at a technical college, two technical colleges. And she also did her own fine art which was totally different than some of the artwork she did for us. But she kind of added and so we had all these backboards and that so that people could read and we took on the position of a farm educator on the weekends. Kind of a dual purpose in that they could interact with customers and teach them about what they're seeing if anybody has questions.
We found a lot of people who came for a visit didn't want a lesson, but they were happy to ask questions. And bunny cuddling is now one of our most popular activities.
Christa Hein: And I was going to ask you about your animal programs and how you integrate the animals into your education.
Leslie Forsythe: Yeah. Well, we've gone through so many different sort of stages.
When we were first up here, we had a lot of property and not all of it could be put into to fruits and vegetables, which we grew and supplied to our Markum farm. But, we had cattle and we would have them there and then say okay, well let's raise some chickens. We raised some chickens to sell frozen chicken and turkeys at Thanksgiving and a little bit at got Christmas time to another reason to get people to come back to the farm and then pigs. So we had pork sausage and bacon and that. So it all evolved sort of as what can we produce, what can we grow, what are people interested in? And children love animals. And that's a big thing. I mean, it's a very high cost for us to keep the animals in the barn.
Most of them are ambassadors. We just sold three lambs this morning to go for Easter, but they're not really for production. The chickens of course are and the pigs, we just decided last year were too old trying to encourage pigs to get onto the truck, but they're just and they stink too. So the kids really haven't missed the pigs in the sense of the smell. And I haven't missed because of the flies. So it's all intertwined.
But, it's kinda like not putting your eggs all into one basket. But the education portion is my passion. That's the one I love and it's partly because it's just really neat to see the joy on kids' faces and the excitement as they get out there and they see they they do.
And then, you know, but we have had two dislocations, like, we're on our third location. It's like knocking the wind, like knocking you in the knees and knocking you down each time you change because then you have to rebuild.
With moving in 2014, we have the internet and we've had websites and that, but still people are still finding us from Markum and we had to reinvent ourselves and so it was coming back together. We were kind of thinking 2019, we're getting there and then COVID hit. And then the thing about that was we were a farm so we were outside. People had to get outside, they could distance and that, but it did kind of knock the wind out of our sail and we really did have to pivot.
But we were grateful that we had a CSA program. Our farmer's markets, we had to start when we moved up here to Green Bank because we have to go to people to sell what we grow rather than them come to us because it takes too long to get them to come to us. It was another way of saying hey, we're here. This is where we moved to.
Christa Hein: Yeah. Another avenue of marketing.
Leslie Forsythe: That's it. And another exposure in that. And then the school tours all along have been fantastic for building up our admission area because they kids pester power, right? You gotta go. You gotta take me, you gotta take me. And so, and that's all, it's all gradually coming back now.
Christa Hein: Yeah. So since you've had to reinvent yourself and your program so many times, what is the key aspect that you found like this is my key that I wanna do for the educational programs? Like that thing that you really wanted to make sure was in this site in your third try of this?
Leslie Forsythe: So, the main thing is that kids see where their food comes from and you can't bombard them with a lot of information. Because then they just, it's nothing. So experience, like active getting out there, just even playing in our play area. I used to think, oh, are people really gonna pay to come and play here and that but it's so important and they're learning even as they're playing because not all of them play on grass playgrounds at their school. Like some of them just have concrete and they're out standing around tossing balls and stuff, but to lay down in grass and even roll down a hill. Like it's just, you know,
Christa Hein: And at that comfort level, climbing a fence, the things that we may not have that experience otherwise.
Leslie Forsythe: Yeah, so it's connecting and this is, getting out into the field. This is where they pick strawberries, they would pick peas, beans. We have done tomatoes and zucchini if we really have to if we don't have the beans. And then pumpkins of course then, and it's the pumpkins that's the most popular. The springtime is building. Especially the teachers are really happy to get out of the classroom.
The spring is my hardest sell, but it is really an interesting sell. So we focus on plants, animals, and then nature. If the kids’ grade one, we could do a farm and forest. So we've gotten down to little bit down to two programs because if I offer too many, I've got to be concerned about – okay, well, if the instructor that does that program, can she be available on that day? And it's just they get the basics and they get it repeated over and over and over again through the day, but in different ways like, parts of the plant, well they're out in the field. Okay, so the pumpkin plant has a vine and there's leaves, and then you know what order does, what's the cycle like?
First you plant the seed and then you get the stem, and then you get the leaves, and then you get the flowers, and then you get the seeds and you fruit. And where's the, what's the fruit? And you know, even beans of fruit. Why are beans fruit? ' cause the seeds are in them and that fruits it. So, we call it a vegetable, then we eat it, so there's that. And then with the strawberries they love because they're sweet, right? But we have done stone soup as a for summers, especially when you get a lot of different age groups. So when we split them into age groups. One group would go and get pick tomatoes. Another group would pick onions and another group picked peppers and that, and then bring it all together.
And then the stone soup story kind of comes more into reality for them. So it's keeping it simple but keeping it active, repeating but in a different way. Like you can even do - like so we've got a solar panel and say okay, well what part of the plant would the solar panel be?
Well, it would be the leaves because it takes the sun and it uses the sun to make energy and then the energy flows and that, so it all depends on where the kids start from. Sometimes we even just do colors. Well, what color is the pumpkin? You know? Because since if you're starting with three year olds.
You don't get too involved, but you meet them at their level. And I like to take them up a notch. And I like them to know that, hey, strawberries come from a field. They don't come in a little plastic pack. And I figure, because with urbanization in this area, like the greater Toronto areas just booming and a lot of farm fields are going and they're not gonna come back.
And I figure, well, you know, maybe some of these students will be urban planners. At some point and they'll go, okay, farms are important.
Yeah. And that's how we end, like we need farms. Yes. We need farms to eat.
Christa Hein: So what advice would you have liked to have had 30 years ago when you were starting out that you could share to someone who's considering beginning their own program?
Leslie Forsythe: You gotta like having kids around, that’s the main thing. My other advice would be to have people like it's been mostly women. I have had some men teachers, but it's mostly been women 'cause their home while the kids are in school. Right. So it's a perfect job for them.
I say work while your kids are in school. And so they can come after their child gets dropped off at school and they, and they leave and they're
Christa Hein: oh, as your teaching staff, is that what you're meaning as your teaching staff?
Leslie Forsythe: Yeah, my teaching staff.
Christa Hein: Nice.
Leslie Forsythe: Yeah, and that's worked really well. So that's what I would suggest, but I always wanted them to have experience helping in their child's classrooms. Because some moms, if you talk to teachers, you don't wanna have on staff.
Christa Hein: Good strategy.
Leslie Forsythe: I would say surround yourself with strong, enthusiastic people, that love being there and think farms are important too. They don't always have to have farm experience. And that's the beauty of just, my newbies that don't have farm experience start with kindergarten kids.
Kindergarten, because it's more of an experience with smell. It's see, what do you see? What do you hear in that? And how is this different from where you live? I would say that and just be open to learning.
Christa Hein: Always, yes. So just in the couple minutes that we have left what are your hopes for your future of your farm and your education and agritourism adventure?
Leslie Forsythe: Well, we're kind of in the late stages of life. My husband's 78 and my hopes would be that we could find somebody who has the same passions to carry on the farm. But if they don't, there will be an exit at some point. But we don't have five generations in the family farm that we have to go - oh, so you're the final one.
So there isn't that pressure. But it would, we're in an area where we don't think that housing would be a big issue because of water availability. So in some form or another, it would be nice to see the farm carry on as it is. But it is a lot to juggle.
Christa Hein: But it sounds like you're planning your legacy. You're thinking about how to move it into the next hands.
Leslie Forsythe: Yes. It depends on the day too. Like if it's a really crappy day, I'm thinking that's it, that I'm gonna retire soon. And then other times, we've had a lot of impact over the years with a lot of kids. I've had ages 12 to 73 working for us. You know, so it's just our slogan way back when was farms are fun. And they can be.
Christa Hein: Yes, absolutely
Leslie Forsythe: They can be, and I have some lovely people working with me right now. And help make fun for me. Awesome.
Christa Hein: Yeah. Well, Leslie, this has been such an inspiring conversation. Thank you so much for sharing your farm and joining us today. So that we could just experience how your farm is such a fun and vibrant educational destination and you've created so much. So before we wrap up can you let us, our listeners know where they can find you online?
Leslie Forsythe: Okay. https://forsythefamilyfarms.com/. So it's forsythe with an E. That's our website, so I try to keep it up to date.
Christa Hein: Awesome.
Leslie Forsythe: Well, there's a lot about our programs on there.
Christa Hein: Great. And I'll put that in the show notes as well. Thank you so much Leslie. And to our listeners, if you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe to the podcast. Leave us a review and share this with anyone who might be dreaming of starting their own educational farm.
Until next time, keep planting the seeds of knowledge and growing the future of farm education.
Hey farm educators. I hope you enjoyed today's episode. Before you go, I've got something special for you. If you're ready to build a farm education program that people are excited to book, grab my free guide, Five Simple Steps to Growing an In Demand Farm Education Program. It's packed with the same steps I used to grow my own farm education business.
It'll help you get noticed, attract clients, and make an impact. Just head over to www.farmeducatorsroadmap.com/fivesimplesteps to get your free copy. It's quick, easy, and will make your programs irresistible. I can't wait to see what you create. Thanks for listening, and I'll catch you in the next episode.
