Episode 16- Hart2Hart
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Christa Hein: Hey there. Welcome to the Farm Educators Roadmap. I'm Christa Hein, former nonprofit girl turned farm education entrepreneur. I've spent the last 30 years creating hands-on programs that connect people to the land, animals, and the traditions that nourish our daily lives. If you're listening, you probably believe what I do, that farm education is needed now more than ever - not just on rural farms, but in suburbs, cities, and everywhere in-between. In this podcast, you'll hear real stories and practical advice from farm educators all across the country, people who are creating change through their programs in creative and inspiring ways.
Whether you're dreaming about starting your first program, are already knee deep in your own farm education work, or are just curious about how others are impacting their communities through farm education, you're in the right place. [00:01:00] Let's dig in.
Welcome back to the Farm Educators Roadmap. I'm your host, Christa Hein. Today we're heading to Albion, Maine to visit Hart2Hart Farm, a family-owned organic dairy where education has become just as central as farming. My guest is Linda Hartkopf, who despite not growing up on a farm, has spent decades building a beloved farm education center.
Back in 2000, Linda started with a tiny camp of just six boys. Fast forward to today and Hart2Hart’s seasonal camps are packed with kids who get to take care of farm animals, churn butter, make pretzels, try their hand at plowing, and even take part in a farm to table Junior Chef challenge. Linda holds a master's in environmental education and a bachelor's in animal science, and she and her husband Doug milk about 50 to 60 Holstein and Jerseys, whose milk you might recognize [00:02:00] under the Organic Valley label.
But what really shines through in Linda's story is how deeply she connects kids and families to farm life, and how community has rallied around the farm, both in joyful and difficult times. We'll talk about all of that, including the moving story of Cassidy's Kitchen, a three-season farm kitchen built in memory of a beloved camper.
So, whether you're dreaming about starting a farm camp yourself, or you just love hearing how farms are changing lives, this episode is full of heart, resilience, and inspiration. Linda, thanks so much for joining us today.
Linda Hartkopf: Well, thank you. A pleasure to meet you and be part of your podcast.
Christa Hein: Awesome. Well, Linda you didn't grow up on a farm yet today you run a thriving organic dairy and education center.
Can you share your journey into farming and why you chose this as your life's work?
Linda Hartkopf: So I think for myself, it started as a youngster, always wanting to be around [00:03:00] animals and work with animals. And I think for many youngsters that dream is to be a vet. But what inspired me about cows is my grandparents lived in upstate New York near Copake, which is near the Berkshires, and that at the time was cattle country.
And every time we would go and visit them, the smell and the aroma of the area of farms just reminded me of home. And I begged my parents to take me to the barn to see if the cows get milked. And so from that experience of being exposed to that, never milking a cow, but just seeing them and working with animals and also being part of 4-H in my high school years was also inspirational and having me move in that direction.
And I think back to when I was at university. One summer I worked at Muscoot Farm in Katonah, New York, and that was a big county, had recently purchased a facility and was running it as an educational farm, and it really was my first introduction [00:04:00] to an educational facility. They were running a camp and I remember at the time Annie had just come out and the kids were out in the barn mucking out the stalls and throwing the manure and singing “it's a hard knock life.” And just climbing the hay loft and the eating lunch and just exploring and, and it was just, you could see them just enjoy the whole atmosphere and want to be there. But also the parents, because it was open to the public, for weekend events, they were just as curious and it really stuck in my mind the need to build something that would bridge that gap between urban and rural populations so that they would come together and understand each other so they could thrive together.
And so, you know, thinking back of how we got started, my husband's not from a farm either, and he went to school at Delaware Valley College in Pennsylvania and studied dairy science and fell in love that way. And he also had grandparents that owned a gentleman's farm in New York state. So those kind of beginnings were [00:05:00] really nurtured us to the point that we were at.
And in 1985 we got married and we worked on two different farms over a period of couple years, managing dairy farms. And then from there we actually went out on our own and rented a farm for three years and started out with 12 cows and at that time had one child. I, for me, I was thinking back about this, I also got involved with Ag in the Classroom and Farm Bureau’s women committee, and really that was a way to kind of connect myself with the education population and meet really wonderful teachers that were doing ag education in the classroom and also supporting them in many ways.
And I remember going to a convention and the speaker at the time got up and was talking and I raised my hand and I said, “shouldn’t we be focusing on our city kids? Not so much on our rural kids, because they grow up in this, this area, so they should have an [00:06:00] understanding of what goes on.” And she said to me, she goes, where do peanuts grow? I went, Ah! You may grow up in a rural community.You may grow up and even on a farm, but no one really explains what happens. And no one gives you the opportunity to explore and, and to dive deeper into that particular aspect. And so that's really stuck in my head.
I guess it was probably around 90, let’s see, 99 is when I took that leap and started my first educational farm camp on a whim and just put it out there in the universe and said, this is really - I'm passionate about this. I see a need and I really want to see something grow in our area. And I had six boys and it was really amazing the things we did.
We made pizza and we made fishing poles and we learned about wool and they were so excited to be here. And from there it just grew and it really grew by word of mouth.
Christa Hein: Oh, that's awesome. So you hold a master's in environmental education [00:07:00] and a bachelor's in animal science. How do those two pieces, science and education, come together in your work at Hart2Hart?
Linda Hartkopf: Yeah, so the animal science gave me the practical background because I, one of the things I studied when I was at the university was focused on dairy management and doing some dairy research. And that actually, particularly around colostrum with calves. And so that gave me the practical aspects and the understanding of the background of many aspects of the dairy and agricultural community, whether it be soils, crops, animal health or genetics. So that was great. Once I started my camp, I realized that I needed to understand how to develop programs better. And so I ended up going to Antioch University in Keene, New Hampshire, and I really enjoyed their aspect because it taught me about this, the research behind how kids learn and understand and grasp concepts and develop programs.
But I also was able to say, hey, I have [00:08:00] this idea, this farm camp I have started. How do I expand it? How do I visit other farms? And see how they expanded their programs and see what they’re doing.
But also, how do I fundraise? You know, do I go nonprofit or for profit? So it really helped me when I took that course of action to zone in and really be particular about what I wanted to learn and get out of the program. And it was good because I did end up visiting quite a few different educational facilities.
There were larger ones, most of them like Shelburn Farm and the Farm School and farm in Massachusetts. But it gave me an idea of how to sculpt my program.
And that definitely came also through having that degree in environmental education.
Christa Hein: Nice. So, can you paint us a picture of what your family farm [00:09:00] looks like today? The land, the cows? What does daily life look like for you?
Linda Hartkopf: So, when I'm not in camp, we're, we're milking. We own 289 acres of land. We rent probably another a hundred acres of land as well.
Our home farm sits on a hundred acres, and I think in starting the, the program, it was, it was easy for me in the sense that we already had the facility in place. So, we had barns, you know, we had the animals. We had a front yard and a space to go if there was rain. So, in starting the program, it was very easy in that aspect because I already had infrastructure in the sense put in place.
The other thing I found out was when I first started, I called everybody and like to find out if I needed a license to start up. And everyone I talked to, maybe I didn't talk to the right people, but I talked to the state, I talked to our local, town office and everyone's like, no, you don't [00:10:00] need a license.
You can do what you want. But I did follow the American Camping Association guidelines to make sure that I was meeting rules and regulations in that respect. So, I think, like I said, getting into it was very easy for me because the facility was already in place and what was unique too was the dairy was actually our major income.
So, the camp was just a side. So, people understand that the dairy functions year round, and we did go in 97, we did go organic. And that was huge for us because philosophically we already were there. But it also saved our farm. So that was a huge transition for us and a good transition into Organic Valley and being with them and, and being able to share our story with other people, our hard transition.
Christa Hein: So as Organic Valley producers, how does being a part of that cooperative connect to your role as an educator? How do you use that in your programs?
Linda Hartkopf: That's a great question. [00:11:00] I think we share an understanding, like for example, like where does our milk end up? So, in New England, Organic Valley producers milk currently end up at Stonyfield.
So, making that relationship, farm to table. People also have been involved, both my husband and I in different committees. But, I think sharing our story for other farmers, to give them an idea that this could also be another value-added product to their, to their income.
For us over the years, it definitely has been an asset. People have to understand, when I first started out, I was basically doing both. I was running camp and milking and raising kids at the same time.
And I truly believe that when you're passionate about something of this nature, anything, anything that, it just, it flows. It just flows together and it happens. And I think in that aspect, my kids were part of camp, although they show up at the good sections like food and games [00:12:00] and whatnot. But, it really hasn't been, and may probably the last 10, oh, well, I would say seven years that I've not milked as much.
I'm really able to focus on the camp aspect, which is really nice, not having to do both and be stretched so thin, so to speak. But being able to share our story with other organic producers. And being here as an asset if they have questions that I can help them in that direction.
Christa Hein: Well, and how just interesting and exciting for the kids to be able to take care of cows that then they can recognize that label in the store and make that direct connection. Like, that milk in the store shelf could have come from cows that I helped take care of. That's such a cool thing.
Linda Hartkopf: Yeah. And definitely we make that point with all our school trips and people that come here to help them make that connection. And just going back to one of the aspects I think is unique about our program is that each [00:13:00] camper adopts their own special animal for the week.
They get to train that animal and, and learn about that animal. And then at the end they showcase their parents and family members what they've learned about that animal. But it brings them closer, particularly if they have a calf. Two years from now, they could actually have a calf from their, you know, a calf that their calf birthed.
Which is kind of exciting to keep track of families for them. And it shows because we've had kids who have been here 9, 10, 11 years and they've seen those transitions and they've seen those connections. I think it's also interesting, one of the things we talk about is careers in agriculture because, like I said, most kids only think of being a vet, but the agricultural field is so wide open, there's so many opportunities and I think now with the aid of internet research, it makes it easier to find incredibly cool opportunities that when, when I was coming into [00:14:00] this, you didn't have that resource out there.
People didn't know. I mean, I know at the university we talked about doing careers. They're like, good luck. You know, you got an animal science degree. But now there's all kinds of cool opportunities to go, whether it be working on educational facilities that if you can scout out across the country or doing value added or traveling abroad and doing programs of that nature. So, I think that's really exciting to share that aspect with kids, with our campers. and then to see where they end up.
Christa Hein: Mm-hmm.
Linda Hartkopf: And that's, and some of them do, they do stay in the agricultural field, but one of the things I also stress is that - not so much stress, but they may not be farmers.
But they are gonna be lawmakers, they are going to be voters and hopefully vote with the better conscious and understanding of what they're voting and the impact that have and the relationship with the environment and with their food. That they'll make better choices moving [00:15:00] forward.
Christa Hein: Yeah. So, can you give us an overview of your summer camp programs and maybe why families keep coming back to your farm year after year?
Linda Hartkopf: So, we take in 24, a maximum of 24 kids a session. I will run three counselors and, and usually two, one to two junior counselors or various counselors in training. We're a long day, the kids arrive about 8:15, we start at 8:30 and they go to 4:00 in the afternoon. So, on a typical day when they come in, you know, we have our morning circle, go right into chores. Because part of having an animal is that relationship you have with them and that they rely on you to help feed them and care for them. So, the kids have opportunities to cycle through three chore groups. So, one being like taking care of the calves, one taking care of goats and chickens and bunnies.
And another one is gardening. And with the gardening group, which is really cool, is they have opportunities to make healthy snacks for us if they want, depending on what's harvestable [00:16:00] at the time, as well as care for the garden. And then we run into our, whatever our theme topic is for the day. So it's, most of my sessions are just down on the farm.
We are in an area where I can't really say, this is just a five and 6-year-old group. It's such a small group. Small. We do seven to 12 is mostly our age range. And so we'll do a focus activity. So it could be about pollinators, it could be about soil health. I mean, it's - I let my counselors really bring in their expertise as well, so that's not just mine, but they have ownership in the program as well.
And so after that morning activity, usually lunch, free time and then maybe follow up with a craft or activity to solidify what they learned, in the afternoon. But what's unique about the program and this being my farm, is that if a cow is calving, we could stop. We can stop and go check it out and watch that birth, we could, if they're harvesting in the field, we [00:17:00] can stop.
Or if the vet's here this summer we had the vet come and they did an ultrasound on the cows and the kids were able to see the baby calf. Ah, nice. You know, and that was really cool. They could see the spine and they could see the heartbeat and you know, so that was a really cool opportunity for them to think about, like, if you can be a vet, you can do technology.
If you wanna be on that end, end of it. So that's, that's really fun. And it gives kids a chance to explore and test, I say test their abilities, but there'll be times when like climbing the hay bales and they'll say, well, I need a hand up. I’m like, how are you going to problem solve? How are you going to do it? So giving them the opportunity to problem solve the situations because they thrive and see the success on the other end is truly amazing.
And that, and that goes why I did with animals, because animals test you. They're, they have great days and they have days that aren't so great. Just like kids, you know, they have good days and bad days. And so how do you work [00:18:00] through that?
How do you work through that distance so you have success on the other end? And when they do, that's when they shine. And they just, their confidence builds within a short period of time. It’s truly amazing. And I think that's, that's why the kids come back, families come back because some of our families of summer said, it's just so magical here.
What happens here is just magical. And the kids just love it. They are up at four o'clock in the morning packed and ready to go to camp.
Christa Hein: That's awesome. Yeah. It sounds like you have a lot of campers that come back year to year. And so that kind of leads me into, I want to ask you about Cassidy's Kitchen because it's such a moving part of Hart2Hart story.
Could you share who Cassidy was and why the farm was such a special place for her?
Linda Hartkopf: Yeah, so Cassidy was a longtime camper. I knew her from camp and she came with a community in her neighborhood. A bunch of them would come to camp and they would come year after year.
And I also knew outside of camp [00:19:00] as well, her family and her friends. But unfortunately in 2014 she went on a hayride with some friends and was tragically killed. There was an accident and she was, she was unfortunately the only child that was killed that day. There were a couple injuries. It devastated the community, because the family was so well known and, and she was one of those individuals. She had a huge smile. She was a valedictorian of a class, very giving to the community. So, it made a huge impact on the community. And so I was trying to figure out how best to honor her at the time.
And her mom called up and she said to me: farm camp was Cassidy and her brother Colby's favorite place to go. That was their number one place. Their summer revolved around farm camp and she wanted to do something to give to farm camp in Cassidy's memory. And so we brainstormed and one of the things doing the farm to table, I love to cook with the [00:20:00] kids.
I think that's so important to have that understanding. And so they were coming into my house to cook and do activities. Bless my husband.
But, as we talked, I said, well, what I really could use is a kitchen that would allow us the opportunity to not use my kitchen, but to run programs for both, for the campers and then future programs for community and adults. And so they really loved that idea. They thought that would be a perfect opportunity, and so we began to fundraise for that and share Cassidy's story.
And share about this opportunity of putting a kitchen in her name. And we were able to raise over $15,000 for that venture. As well, we had numerous people donate time, and materials as well. And so it, on the anniversary of her passing, we had a groundbreaking session. We had over a hundred people show up here [00:21:00] to help in some capacity in putting, putting this kitchen up.
The love and the healing that happened that weekend was just amazing. And then throughout building this kitchen was just absolutely amazing. And so it is dedicated to Cassidy. It is called Cassidy's Kitchen. And when you walk in there, we have tiling on the wall that kids made as a backsplash, but we also have a tree.
And I wish I could show you, one of my camp families made where the leaves on the tree represent all those who gave financially or donated items. And then in the trunk of the tree are all the volunteers that helped. Mm-hmm. And it hangs on our wall. And it's just a reminder of just what a community can do when they rally around an individual family, that there is support and you do when you feel, when you walk into that kitchen.
You can feel the love and the warmth of that kitchen. It's been pretty, pretty special to this day and it has allowed us to offer more programs.
Like one week we have a [00:22:00] junior chef program where we do a lot of cooking and we have a chopped challenge, which is truly amazing because the kids are, they do amazing job making their items. And then the judges coming in and, you know, critiquing and, declaring the winner. Pretty intense competition.
But all in good fun. All in good fun. And eventually we've done some community activities like cheese making class and some other types of class, but hopefully to use it more so in the future.
Christa Hein: Nice. So I want to move on and ask about your school programs. So, beyond summer camp, you also welcome classrooms out for hands-on farm education.
What are some of the lessons that kids experience when they come out to the farm with their classmates?
Linda Hartkopf: So mostly we're at this point in time, we're doing preschool, first and second graders mostly. And definitely if I have a class that's interested in coming, I can cater it to what their needs are. But we, we set up for [00:23:00] those particular individuals, to the first grade and second grade stations, educational stations for them. So, they rotate through a calf station where they learn about how to milk a cow. If we have a cow at that time that's able to hand milked, they'll actually hand milk it and talk about what goes into feeding a cow and just milking it, talking about the baby calf.
We'll set up a chicken station where they learn all about chickens. Most of these kids have never handled animals or so they get an opportunity to pick up eggs, hold chickens and learn about them. We have a sheep station where they learn about wool and they, we have Katahdin here on the farm that were actually developed in the state of Maine, which is really exciting.
So we can talk about the history of the sheep, and then they get to card and spin wool. Sometimes we'll do a cheese making workshop with them. So, we make a very simple lemon cheese with them, which is really a lot of fun because this, the results are instantaneously and the kids can taste the [00:24:00] product afterwards.
We set it up like kind of like a magic show with them. We also have a rotational station that they get to do goat yoga. So it'll usually have the babies, because most of the time, maybe spring or they're still young enough where they can go out and they can hug and and do some yoga with the babies.
This particular setup has also, going back to the Shine on Cass foundation, we partner and do a community event with them where we do an animal baby shower PJ party where we put all the baby animals in PJs and kids come in with their PJs and they learn about the farm and the animals here on the farm and walk through all those stations.
And that has been a really nice, free public event that we do in partnership that gives families opportunities and also a chance to, for those that don't, haven't heard about the camp. 'Cause you know, we still have people out there that are learning about the camp. To see a little bit and ask questions and experience a little bit of what goes on here at Hart2Hart Farm.
Christa Hein: Yeah, what a fun way to market. [00:25:00] That sounds like a great event. So I want to ask some questions here about your farm. So, running a small organic dairy is not easy, I'm sure. So, what's one challenge that you and Doug have faced in creating and growing this farm business for your family?
Linda Hartkopf: I think when we rented the farm for three years, we actually owned our animals and equipment after the three years, which is pretty amazing.
We started out with 12 animals. Um, we rented 13 and by three years we owned those 12 and another, probably 30 by that time. I think the challenge, one of the things that happened for us when we bought our current farm, price of milk was pretty high at that time. It then, three months after purchasing the farm, it dropped from, say it was $18 per hundred pounds of milk to $10, $11 per hundred pounds of milk.
So that was, that was challenging for us to try to not have our cow numbers, and have that drop and [00:26:00] trying to maintain our family and the farm. And that's one of the reasons why we actually switched to organic. We were instrumental in sitting at the table with a few other farmers and the distributors to try to bring an organic market into the state.
So, kind of the first pioneers. And in all reality, that saved our farm. So being able to go from a fluctuating market to a stable market that really paid for your, your product was really beneficial. And so that helped us to grow going forward. So those were some of the bigger challenges we had. We've also, over the years, have had Holsteins and we have bought in jerseys into our herd to help with our butter fat and components that we get paid more for through Organic Valley. So that's been really helpful as well.
And I think the other piece recently, we have been able to secure a few grants that help with improving our soils on [00:27:00] the farm. 'Cause that's really where your soil health is really important to get the feed that you need to feed the cows and minimize your grain input. So that's been really helpful for us as well as having those aspects.
And then as the camp has grown, that's been a huge aspect of adding value added to the, to the farm operation.
Christa Hein: Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah. So if you could give one piece of advice to someone thinking about using their farm to start a farm camp or offer field trips, what would it be?
Linda Hartkopf: Oh, that's a great question. Um, so first you've gotta be passionate about it. I think that's, you've got to love to work with a variety of people and, and be able to guide them, if, and then see what's in your community and also see what people are interested in, particularly, you know, survey some schools. See what their interested in learning, because there's two aspects of, and I think you have to take that in mind in consideration, is there are some farms that just do a walking [00:28:00] tour where they walk around and they, this is, you know, this is this and this is that.
Or do you wanna be a more hands-on program where they actually are doing something? And so, and maybe you can combine both, but figuring out what suits your, your style of teaching and outreach to your community. As far as like doing a camp aspect, do what you have, 'cause you probably have everything right there.
Talk with your local agencies to see what are some rules and regulations that you need to follow to get started. Like I said, when I first started, you have facilities. You have a place to get outta the rain. You have a place where the kids to be safe. You have a place where they can work with animals.
Be conscious of your equipment that's running around. Those are, once you have those in place, then you can go. And then marketing, figuring out how to market. And I'm just gonna backtrack - one of the things I think is challenging too, is you have to [00:29:00] rely on volunteers or how do you get, if you do school programs and you wanna do more hands-on like stations, how do you recruit people to help with those and train them to do that?
Christa Hein: All great advice. So to wrap up, for listeners who want to support you or learn more about Hart2Hart programs, where can they find you online?
Linda Hartkopf: So they can find us on Facebook, they can find us on Instagram, and we just started TikTok, which I'm still learning about. Um, and of course there's our website at hart2hart.org
Christa Hein: Well, Linda, thank you so much for sharing so much about your farm and sharing your story for giving us such a beautiful glimpse into the life and learning that happens at Hart2Hart Farm. Thank you for joining us today.
Linda Hartkopf: Well, thank you for making me a part of your, your program.
Christa Hein: To our listeners. I hope you felt inspired by this conversation. If you enjoyed this episode, [00:30:00] I'd love for you to follow the podcast and leave a review so others can discover it too. And of course, share it with a friend who might be dreaming about their own farm-based education program.
Thanks for listening. Until next time, keep planting those seeds of inspiration on the farm and in your community.
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