21 - Rogue Valley Farm to School
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Christa Hein: Hey there. Welcome to the Farm Educators Roadmap. I'm Christa Hein, former nonprofit girl turned farm education entrepreneur. I've spent the last 30 years creating hands-on programs that connect people to the land animals, and the traditions that nourish our daily lives. If you're listening, you probably believe what I do, that farm education is needed now more than ever. Not just on rural farms, but in suburbs, cities, and everywhere in-between.
In this podcast, you'll hear real stories and practical advice from farm educators all across the country, people who are creating change through their programs in creative and inspiring ways.
Whether you're dreaming about starting your first program, are already knee deep in your own farm education work, or are just curious about how others are impacting their communities through farm education, you're in the right place. [00:01:00] Let's dig in.
Christa Hein: Welcome back to the Farm Educators Roadmap. I'm your host, Christa Hein. Today we're heading to Southern Oregon to visit Rogue Valley Farm to School, a nonprofit that's connecting kids, schools and farms through hands-on education and local food. They don't operate their own farm. Instead, they partner with farms and schools across their region to bring learning and fresh food to where it's needed most.
Joining me today are Ellie Thompson, Education Program Manager and Elise Frommer Lead School Partnership Educator. Together they help teachers bring farm and garden experiences to life while supporting local farmers and school food service.
Ellie and Elise, thanks so much for joining us.
Ellie Thompson: Thanks for having us, Christa.
Christa Hein: Absolutely. So to start, I'd like to learn a little bit about the both of you and what brought you to Rogue Valley Farm to school. Ellie, can you tell us about your background [00:02:00] and what led you to this work?
Ellie Thompson: Yeah, absolutely. So I am, an Oregon native. I was born in Oregon, I grew up on a chicken farm actually, so I kind of have some roots in farming.
I come from a really long line of farmers. I realized as an adult, but I'm actually kind of the only person or the first person, first generation, in my family to not have my own farm. So, when I was younger and when I was exploring around and eating lots of food and pressing apples from the orchard, I didn't really realize how, how special that really was until I got a little bit older.
I think that love of exploration really drove me to pursue a career in science. I went to school for biology. I thought I wanted to go into the medical field and then kind of accidentally fell in love with ecology [00:03:00] and plant sciences and realized that that was really more of the path that I wanted to go in.
And I wasn't actually sure what I wanted to do with that just yet until I was in my senior year and I randomly took a marine biology class as kind of as an elective biology class. And there were these people that came in one day with this giant blow up whale shark and they were these people that tour all around and they had a TV show I think, and they were just teaching people about sharks and why we shouldn't be afraid of sharks and how they benefited our world and our ecosystem.
And I just saw these people and I was like, oh my gosh, this is so cool. What a interesting thing to get to do. And I asked them, what did you go to school for? And they said environmental education. And that was a really big, like light bulb in my mind that it was this way that I could kind [00:04:00] of combine my love of science and working with kids. I had been a camp counselor for many years and, theater and art and all of these things. So, I went to get my master's degree in Environmental Education down here in southern Oregon. And it was while I was here that I interned with Rogue Valley Farm to School.
It was kind of like another light bulb moment that came to mind. I thought I was going to go in other avenues of environmental ed, but I really kind of found that full-circle connection that, from my upbringing and my childhood and family roots really came together in farm-based education. I started in 2019 and I've done lots of different things within the organization and I just, I love it. I absolutely love it.
Christa Hein: Awesome. Elise, how about you? What shaped your path toward outdoor and farm-based education?
Elise Pfrommer: Absolutely. So, I first fell in love with [00:05:00] backpacking and getting to camp and be outside. And I had a couple of really impactful experiences with these expedition-based outdoor education programs.
And so originally I thought I wanted to go into expedition-based outdoor education. And I did some guiding and I went to college for environmental studies in Spanish, and I ended up connecting those two areas of interest in a concentration based on bilingual environmental education. And through that I was able to take some education courses and do an internship at a school garden, which was really awesome.
But I still thought that maybe I wanted to do expedition-based education, until I found myself wanting a more 9-5 life, being able to be home every day, [00:06:00] and trying to figure out how to blend this, wanting to be outside, wanting to do really hands-on education with not wanting to have to live in the woods for long periods of time. And that's how I ended up in the farm to school world.
So right after I graduated college, I moved down to Southern Oregon and got a job with Rogue Valley Farm to school, and I've been working as a garden teacher with them ever since.
Christa Hein: Nice. So for either or both of you, when you think back to your first days at Rogue Valley Farm to School, what surprised you the most about the work?
And I'm also curious how your roles may have grown or changed since you started.
Ellie Thompson: Yeah, I could start with that. My role has changed very drastically. I started out as a seasonal employee, just hired to teach the farm field trips. And, I think my supervisor at the time saw some other skills that I had with [00:07:00] organizing things and scheduling and managing, kind of working as a leader with other people on the team.
And so throughout time, they have really taken a look at my skills and found ways to use me in the nonprofit world. There's so many hats that everybody has to wear working at a nonprofit. And so, they've really taken my passions of photography and graphic design and lots of other little things I've dabbled in, coordinating with volunteers.
And so I think that's been one of the things that's really surprised me in a good way about our organization is that I think that the leadership of our organization is really, really good at getting to know each individual that works with us and looking at your skills and asking you about what are ways that you'd like to grow, and really supporting you with that and giving you [00:08:00] opportunities to grow skills and get to use different kinds of skills. And it all comes together and we have just a really incredible team with such a diverse, skillset and set of backgrounds.
Christa Hein: Elise, what about you?
Elise Pfrommer: I think I have been surprised, pleasantly surprised, by how much I love this work. Like I said, it started as a way to integrate passions and scheduling needs. And I thought I would like it, but I didn't know how fulfilling it was going to be for me. And I don't know if you would ask me when I first got hired, if I would have envisioned myself being in my fifth year of teaching with Rogue Valley Farm to School. So that's definitely been a very pleasant surprise and something that's been really great and discovering different facets of like garden education, farm to school education has been really exciting. Getting to [00:09:00] create curriculum, especially focused on social emotional standards in the garden has been really exciting.
And in terms of my role, it, I've stayed mostly in the same role, but my level of leadership and responsibility has definitely grown. Going from someone who didn't really have very much experience with education, to now someone who feels very confident in this realm.
Christa Hein: Nice. So, for listeners who might not be familiar with the setup there at Rogue Valley Farm to School, can you describe how the school operates?
And then can you also tell us about its history and how it all got started?
Ellie Thompson: Yeah, so Rogue Valley Farm to School is a non-profit organization. and we started 16 years ago just as like little pumpkin patch, exploratory field trips at a local farm in Ashland, Oregon. And now we've [00:10:00] grown to a point where we have 14 staff members.
And our organization really works on all three different elements of the farm to school movement, which is procurement, education, and school gardens. And our organization does all of that. We have a procurement team of people that work with connecting the local farms to the spool cafeterias. And we have an education team of people, and Elisa and I are two of those members on that team.
And we do lots of different education programs. I know we're going to talk about it in a minute. And yeah, the school gardens are part of that program and we work really, really hard to have a lot of integration between our procurement team and our education team, and really when we're working with schools and in the school gardens and then the cafeterias working really hard to make those [00:11:00] connections to the, to the local farms.
Christa Hein: So, what are some of the biggest benefits or maybe the biggest challenges of working across multiple farm and school sites?
Elise Pfrommer: There are a lot of challenges and opportunities that come from it. I personally work and teach at two different schools. And then I will take the classes that I work with out on farm field trips in the fall and the spring as well. So, we're at the farm sites. We're at the school sites. And I think one of the really exciting opportunities is getting to build such a wide network of community.
I interface with so many different people at the different schools that I'm really able to kind of connect with different people based on what they're interested in when it comes to gardening or farming or education, and spread the word about what we're doing. So many different staff members get to see our programs in action in one way or another and get to participate and feel some [00:12:00] ownership of that.
On the other side is sometimes it's hard to be spread so thin, I think, and have so many relationships that you're trying to maintain with everyone. And there's a lot of turnover in education, especially in school nutrition staff. And so a lot of times at the beginning of the year, we have to start closer to square one with rebuilding those important relationships.
So that's something that it's, it's a challenge and it's a blessing at the same time.
Christa Hein: Yeah. And that really leads into the next question I was going to ask, which was how do you nurture those partnerships with both farmers and schools so that everybody feels supported and invested?
Ellie Thompson: Yeah. Well I think it really comes to that integration piece.
It's like no one's job really in our organization is kind of a standalone job. There's lots of partnerships and connections happening. I'll give an example. So there was a school [00:13:00] district that has really struggled to purchase local food and kind of get, pass like a barrier of, it's going to take a lot of people power to process these like raw vegetables and how does that look like? And I don't even know if we want to do that. And over the summer we had our education team coming in and doing summer school programming at that school. And our educators started to really get to know the cafeteria staff in there and the nutrition director.
And I think it was that like face-to-face. Oh, you're a real person and you're really cool, and look at these cool things that you're doing with these kids. Hey, maybe, maybe I'm really interested in purchasing more local produce and who do I talk to in your organization about that? And so, there's seems to be like there's lots of different layers to what we're doing and when one person is going in and making a connection with someone, and [00:14:00] maybe that person will now feel more comfortable about reaching out about other questions that they have, you know, that somebody else in our organization can help with.
So, we live in a pretty small like tight-knit rural community. There's kind of, you know, a lot of people know each other. There's lots of connections and it's really cool to get to be a part of that and to really have that integration into all of these different facets of the farm world and school world.
Christa Hein: Nice. So, can you tell me about your main education programs? What kinds of hands-on experiences do students have when they connect with you?
Elise Pfrommer: So, we have our Digging Deeper School Partnership, which is actually with the school district, and we provide programming to all the elementary schools in the two districts we work with. And so that includes weekly garden classes for grade bands, tasting tables in the cafeteria, where monthly we bring a local seasonal item for everyone in the school to [00:15:00] try.
And then we have the farm field trips, one in the fall and one in the spring. Garden classes every week. There's a really wide range of topics that are covered. You know, we go, we talk about how plants grow and how to grow food. We do cooking projects. We integrate English language arts standards with doing, writing about the garden.
Some poetry, we do art. We like to do like painting with beet juice and collages with materials found in the garden. We integrate math and we do measurement, mapping, all sorts of different things.
Christa Hein: Can I ask a question to clarify? So do one of your teachers go to every class in the school or are you working with specific grade levels?
How does that work? What are the logistics?
Elise Pfrommer: That's a great question. It varies from school to school. We generally work with upper elementary three to five, [00:16:00] and depending on the size of the school, sometimes we'll work with one grade. Sometimes we'll work with two grades. Kind of what, what scheduling allows.
Christa Hein: Got it.
Elise Pfrommer: And then Ellie, do you want to talk about our field trips, what we do on the field trips?
Ellie Thompson: Yeah, so the Digging Deeper School Partnership Program is kind of the, is the program that encompasses all of our education offerings, and we do that with two school districts in our region. And then we also have kind of a menu of service options, and we call that our Cultivating Connections program, where people can build their own programs.
And so, there's lots of different options. So, people can come out on field trips. So, we have like a full day field trip that's harvesting and cooking and making a meal together. And we also have shorter field trips that are more exploration based tasting out in the field. And then we also just [00:17:00] recently launched a classroom cooking program.
So previously we had really only done cooking classes with our classes in those partner schools that are under that Digging Deeper school partnership umbrella. But we've really noticed that in our area it's getting harder and harder for schools to one, afford field trips. And two, like afford buses for field trips and busing has become a really big issue.
So, we're moving a little bit more towards kind of bringing the experience to you. So, we have something called the Taste Bud Trackers program, where we come and do a 75 minute cooking lesson and anyone can sign up for that. We also offer those tasting table programs in the cafeteria to any schools that want to select that from the menu.
We also offer a lot of professional development opportunities. And so we can do one-on-one coaching for people that either have a garden [00:18:00] program or are trying to get a garden program set up or don't have any garden at all, but just want to somehow integrate local food systems into their school curriculum.
Christa Hein: Wow. So many different ways that you're interacting with the schools. So, for your field trips, are there just certain farms that allow you to bring field trips and other farms that are supplying the produce to the schools? How are you finding those farmer collaborators?
Ellie Thompson: So that's primarily my realm.
I manage our field trip programs. So right now, we're partnered with two local farms and one of them is Southern Oregon University Teaching Farm. The missions are really well aligned. It's a teaching farm. They're also, they do focus on production. They're selling, they sell directly to the schools around them.
So they have some production, but they are a teaching farm. So that's really aligned really well with what we're doing. And we also [00:19:00] have another farm that we're partnered with. That is part of the Oregon State University, but we're more partnered actually with another nonprofit called the Family Nurturing Center that is farming part of that area.
And so we are directly aligned with a nonprofit that's growing food and they also have an educational component. So, I think not every farm is ready to have kids come out to it. There's lots of logistics and things and I think it really comes down to finding those common goals that you have.
And so not every farm is set up for education programs and we've definitely learned that over the years. And so there's not a whole lot of different farms that are really set up to have buses coming out. And we worked with a couple others in the past too, but it works well to have just a couple of sites to manage.
Two is a good number to manage at one [00:20:00] time.
Christa Hein: Yeah. So since you're working with classroom teachers and trying to incorporate this different farm and food curriculum, how do you support those classroom teachers who want to bring this type of learning into their space, but maybe they have no experience with farming or really feel uncomfortable with the topic?
How do you help guide them in that?
Elise Pfrommer: I think just starting small and focusing on, you know, what feels manageable to them. And I think sometimes when you think of cooking with students, cooking with kids, it has to be a really big project. People think it has to be a really big project.
But it doesn't, just even bringing in a little something to taste and having everyone taste a little bit of a cucumber or something of the like, can be really important and really open kids' horizons and creating that culture of trying new foods and trying new things in the classroom can be super beneficial.
So, yeah, so just [00:21:00] starting small, seeing what feels comfortable. And we also really try to align with standards. A lot of teachers now it, there's a lot of pressure to hit the standards and focus on academics and what will be on state testing and things like that.
And so, trying to find ways in which to integrate the two so it feels more doable time-wise and not like, oh, well we're taking time out of reading to do garden and how they can inform each other and actually strengthen the goals of each.
Christa Hein: Are you working together with them to create curriculum or are they choosing from pre-established curriculum that you already have to where when you come in the school, they're basically stepping back and letting you take over the teaching?
Or is it more, a shared role or does it change with each school?
Elise Pfrommer: It's mostly we bring in our curriculum and we teach, with support from the teacher. We are not district employees and so the teacher is there while we are teaching, but they kind of get to be more of a student with their [00:22:00] students and interact with the kids in a different way, which a lot of them really enjoy. And then, there is some collaboration.
We have PLC meetings and, you know, we ask them if there's certain things that they would like incorporated into the garden curriculum or certain standards that they're hoping to hit and would like assistance with that. Or, I've been working with some of my teachers for a number of years, so they'll request lessons.
They'll say, hey, that one time you did this and that was really awesome. Let's do that again this year. So there's definitely some collaboration, but generally I'm the main teacher. I'm bringing the curriculum in.
Christa Hein: So, one of the main goals is helping more local food make its way into school cafeterias.
How does that collaboration work between the farmers and the food service staff? And I'm curious about the logistics of how farmers get their products into schools and what role Rogue Valley Farm to School plays in those types of contracts and relationships. Are you the mediator? Are you just [00:23:00] making the connection and stepping back?
How does that all work?
Ellie Thompson: Yeah, so there's a lot of different moving parts as you can imagine. So we have a procurement team that they do all kinds of things to really support both the farmers and the schools.
So, one of the things that we do is we have a weekly availability list. So we get lists every week from certain farms that are ready to sell to schools and they send us what they have available.
We put that into our spreadsheet and calculate out like what it actually costs per serving so that people in the nutrition, in the cafeterias can really assess like what the cost is for these local items. And so, we send out that list and then the school cafeterias can order directly from us, or they also have [00:24:00] the contact information for the farmers so they can contact the farmer directly.
We kind of have an array of people that kind of do different things. And for that we also really work with school staff to help them kind of identify what kinds of crops are easier for them to process.
Some kitchens, you know, have very limited equipment for processing and so we are working really hard to figure out what the schools want and what kinds of quantities that they need, and working with the farmers too. Kind of see, you know, what makes sense for them. Because it always seems like the timing for things of, you know, planning things out doesn't quite match with farmers and schools.
And so, we definitely, there's a lot of go back and forth and we do kind of work as a mediator in between the two and, yeah, help to kind of strengthen [00:25:00] those relationships. Our state has funding for schools that are part of the USDA nutrition programs to purchase some local food.
And so, a lot of what we do is we help communicate to the schools, this is how much money you have to spend and let us help you spend it. So that we can, you know, spend it on our local produce and then if they spend it all, we can help them apply for grants to purchase more local produce. Because of course, you know, there is a bit of a cost difference when you're looking at purchasing locally versus from these bigger companies.
And so we really work hard to bridge that gap between the two and really support our schools and support our farmers.
Christa Hein: What an amazing service that is. You can imagine how overwhelming it would be for a food service worker to try to even think that that might be possible. So, without somebody like your organization there to make that connection, it might not even seem possible.
What an amazing thing. Oh, I [00:26:00] love it.
So. Has equity shaped your thinking or design when working with different schools or farmers as far as like a school's budget or the amount of staff that they have to work together with you or even their location?
Ellie Thompson: Yeah, equity is definitely something that we talk about a lot. And, one of the things is, schools have, seems like every year they have less and less funding for kind of these extracurricular special things like garden programs and field trips. And of course, you know, costs for us go up too.
We want to make sure that we're paying our staff a livable wage and that helps with retention too. We want to be able to keep our staff and not have a whole lot of turnover. So, there's definitely a lot of things going on at play and want to make sure that we're able to keep our staff [00:27:00] happy, but also that we're able to meet the needs of our community.
And so, one of the things I brought up earlier about the field trips is we're really trying to figure out what does our community want for education and what can we provide? What opportunities can we provide that meet their needs?
And so, we have been developing more programs where we're going to the schools because they can't necessarily come out to the farms.
And we also have been working on developing programs where we work more with families. We really want to have families involved in our programming as well. So, we've been having, last year, we're going to do it again, we had some family cooking classes in the evenings where we are offering these programs maybe after parents come back home from work so they can participate in our programs and come to a school [00:28:00] where they feel safe coming to. I know, certainly, you know, the world is, a lot of things are happening in the world and our schools have really shown since COVID that it, our schools are places where people feel safe to come.
And so having more programs at the schools, maybe that's also walking distance for families to come and participate in programs.
So, we're trying to think about ways to engage our kids and also our families in their communities where they don't have to go so far.
It's so amazing to get to go out to a local farm, but a lot of times that's just a little bit too far for a school to get to or a family to get to. So, trying to develop more programs that how to come to you instead of you having to go so far.
Christa Hein: Awesome. So to wrap up, I want to ask you both to share a little bit of advice for educators or farmers or for those who want to start an education program [00:29:00] but don't have a farm of their own. What advice would you give them about partnering and building community support or a practical first step you'd recommend in their want to do some farm education?
Elise Pfrommer: I think one thing that we've already talked about, but that is so important, are those personal relationships and getting out there and making relationships with other people in agriculture, with people who work at schools. Just trying to have face-to-face interactions, and oftentimes those relationships, which can start maybe even more as a personal relationship, can blossom into a partnership, when it comes to education, or starting a new program, starting a new partnership. I think that would be my biggest piece of advice.
Christa Hein: What about you, Ellie?
Ellie Thompson: Yeah. My biggest piece of advice would be don't recreate the wheel.
At least not in the beginning. Look and see what's already out there. A lot of states here in the United States [00:30:00] have networks. So Oregon has an Oregon Farm to School Network. Not every state has a farm to school network, but I would maybe start there, do a little Googling, see if your state or maybe a neighboring state has a farm to school network.
And then from there, maybe, you know, hone in on what's closer to you and seeing who's doing what. Connect with those people. Ask them questions. Go to conferences, if there's conferences and yeah, meet people in your area. Check out the farmer's market if you have a farmer's market, talk to people.
But I think starting with trying to figure out what's going on already around me and are there ways I can plug into that and then see where are the gaps, what's missing in our community, and how can I fill that with my skills and my passions.
Christa Hein: Great advice. Ellie and Elise, thank you both so much for sharing how Rogue Valley Farm to School is helping connect farms, [00:31:00] classrooms and cafeterias in such inspiring ways. Thanks for joining us.
Elise Pfrommer: Thank you so much for having us.
Ellie Thomspon: Thank you.
Christa Hein: To learn more or get involved with Rogue Valley Farm to School, visit www.RVfarm2school.org.
And I'll also put that in the show notes. And to our listeners, if today's conversation inspired you, please give us a follow, leave a review, and share this episode with other farm educators.
Until next time, keep teaching, keep growing and keep planting those seeds of change.
Christa Hein: Hey farm educators. I hope you enjoyed today's episode. Before you go, I've got something special for you. If you're ready to build a farm education program that people are excited to book, grab my free guide, Five Simple Steps to Growing an In-Demand Farm Education Program. It's packed with the same steps I used to grow my own farm education business.
It'll help you get noticed, attract clients, and make an impact. [00:32:00] Just head over to www.farmeducatorsroadmap.com/fivesimplesteps to get your free copy. It's quick, easy, and will make your programs irresistible. I can't wait to see what you create. Thanks for listening, and I'll catch you in the next episode.
