Heritage Creek Farm & Education Center
[00:00:00]
Christa Hein: Hey there. Welcome to the Farm Educators Roadmap. I'm Christa Hein, former nonprofit girl turned farm education entrepreneur. I've spent the last 30 years creating hands-on programs that connect people to the land animals, and the traditions that nourish our daily lives.
If you're listening, you probably believe what I do, that farm education is needed now more than ever. Not just on rural farms, but in suburbs, cities, and everywhere in-between. In this podcast, you'll hear real stories and practical advice from farm educators all across the country, people who are creating change through their programs in creative and inspiring ways.
Whether you're dreaming about starting your first program, are already knee-deep in your own farm education work, or are just curious about how others are impacting their communities through farm education, you're in the right place. [00:01:00] Let's dig in.
Christa Hein: Welcome back to the Farm Educators Roadmap. I'm Christa Hein, and today I'm interviewing Cindi Hughes, the founder of Heritage Creek Farm and Education Center in Mount Joy, Pennsylvania. Fourteen years ago, Cindi made the leap from a career in accounting and a background in gardening and canning to building a thriving education farm from the ground up.
Today Heritage Creek is known for its popular summer camps, its CSA, community events and its commitment to what Cindi calls full-circle learning. From first time campers to teen leadership programs, and even professional development for teachers, her farm has become a hub for authentic experiences rooted in the land.
In this episode, we'll talk about how Cindi turned her early food and business experiences into a launchpad for her farm education journey, what those first few years of starting Heritage Creek really looked [00:02:00] like, and the systems and decisions that helped her grow from an idea into a respected education center.
Cindi, thanks so much for being here. Welcome to the show.
Cindi Hughes: So much for having me.
Christa Hein: So I want to start with your backstory. You didn't grow up on a farm, but you grew up with a garden, canning and cooking. How did those childhood experiences plant the seeds for what you're doing now?
Cindi Hughes: So I lived in a development and my parents rented a small little plot that was right next to our home, and we had what I would call larger than a garden, but smaller than a farm. And we would grow - this was in the eighties, so I'm gonna date myself here a little bit, but in the eighties we would grow most of what we were eating during the summertime.
My parents would say to my brother and I, please go out to the garden and pick whatever it is that you would like to eat today. So, I can't say that 100% of the time I was [00:03:00] thrilled about spending my summers doing those types of things. But when I had children, I could see that that particular experience was something that was very impactful to me.
And I wanted to make sure that my children and also other children had that opportunity.
Christa Hein: Absolutely. So you also worked in a restaurant as a teen and then later in accounting. What did those two worlds teach you that you still lean on today on your farm?
Cindi Hughes: So many of the things that I've learned in the past, and this is what I share with young people today, is it doesn't matter if you like bebop around in different things. Eventually it seems like it all comes together and my all coming together didn't really happen until my children were much older and I was in my forties.
But my childhood memories of being in the garden and then our family preserving those things for our winter usage. And being in my grandma's kitchen and learning that whole preservation, the art of preservation, was [00:04:00] so valuable. And then being in a restaurant, it taught me so many wonderful life skills outside of even being a foodie, like time management and how to get things done all at one time and multitask things.
And then, I had the privilege of going to a school that kind of had this tract. And when I graduated, I have four years of accounting behind me and just stepped right into multiple different roles, including running my own business at one point, doing bookkeeping, and then spending eight years in the tax office.
And I cannot explain to anybody who's going to be an entrepreneur, how valuable that lesson of learning, taxes and bookkeeping and all of those types of things, how important that is to running your own business.
Christa Hein: Yeah, absolutely. What a valuable skill that was. So, I'm curious, do you remember the moment when you decided, I'm really going to do this? I'm going to start a farm and an education center. What made you make that decision?
Cindi Hughes: Yes, so both of my [00:05:00] children in their third grade elementary went to a farm camp, and it was in the Poconos of Pennsylvania. It was an overnight camp, and both times when my husband and I came back, we're like, you know what? We have a perfect property in order to be able to do something similar to that.
Not exactly what they were doing, but something like kind of finding our own way with using our property and sharing it with people. So that's kind of when the seeds were kind of planted. And then, one of my children's teachers who was her teacher from first through eighth grade, found herself in a gap and she said, Cindi, let's do this.
I'll do the education side. You do the business side to start and let's just throw it out there and see what happens. So, that's kind of how Heritage Creek Farm Camp came to be.
Christa Hein: That's awesome. So what did the programs look like in the very beginning? What did you start with in those first few seasons?
Cindi Hughes: I always say that Rome was not built in one day. It took a really long time to get our facility and our [00:06:00] program to where it is today. However, initially we had a lot of volunteers. That's how we started. We did one week in of camp in June, one week in July, and one week in August the first year.
And that was about all we could manage. The next year, it was two weeks on, two weeks off, and by the third year it was completely all summer long. And then we expanded to bookend. So basically now we have programs, some winter programs, but I do need time to take a public-facing pause, to regroup and kind of just refresh.
But we do have programs on the farm from the beginning of March till the beginning of December.
Christa Hein: So, which came first? The farm or the programs, or did they develop together?
Cindi Hughes: So, I would say initially we had a homestead, and had a garden and then we used that children's garden to springboard into the farm camp. And now we probably have about two acres in production and three greenhouses [00:07:00] and just have organically grown from that.
The nice thing that has kind of transpired is through using the land, the land has kind of helped us to develop where certain things should be on the land. And I really, really like that portion of our, of our work.
Christa Hein: Yeah. So, I'm curious when you were starting out, because there are so many different things that you can build or grow, you have to make those choices. So, what were some of those small initial investments that you made in the farm, the programs, that you think made the biggest difference?
Cindi Hughes: Initially when we started, we started very theme-based. So I would come up with different types of themes and week to week we would roll out these types of themes, meaning that the themes were kind of the runner of the program and we had to hope that the garden was cooperating, number one, like the weather was cooperating.
We had the fields ready to plant pumpkins because it was the [00:08:00] week we were doing pumpkins, planting pumpkins. And so pretty quickly, I realized that really the farm should be the driver of what we're doing. And we kind of like threw out the book of themes. And it's still sitting there all it in my mind and on my shelves, and I can go to it at any time.
But in order to create an authentic experience on the farm for any of the visitors, whether they're coming for a field trip or summer camp, or professional development, the farm is the driver of what's happening. So, whatever we're doing on the farm is what we're going to incorporate our visitors into experiencing as farm life.
Christa Hein: Yeah. Now, when you were starting out in the beginning, marketing and pricing is always tricky, especially when you're just starting out. How did you initially get the word out about the programs and then decide on how you were setting your prices for those early programs, and then what did you learn that maybe you adjusted later on?
Cindi Hughes: Yes, [00:09:00] we do very little marketing. It is completely word of mouth from people who have had happy experiences on the farm. So educators tell educators, families tell families. So, I really don't have to worry about that part of it. And we are to a size in which it feels comfortable. And not to say that I won't expand beyond those walls going forward, but right now, this is where we are.
A couple years back, I had both of my children here working on the farm, and so we were able to be a little bit larger. And now I'm kind of like, this is where I am in my mid-fifties. This is what I'm able to do. I want to do everything well. And so this, this is the size that we're going to be. So, I don't really spend a lot of money on marketing.
However, I would say probably the most important thing is to be making community connections. Reaching out. I mean, it's hard when you're on the farm and I think you can agree with this as well. It's like we get immersed in what we're doing on the farm, but stepping off of [00:10:00] the farm and finding those connections, whether it be through the local Chamber of Commerce or through the schools that we're working with, or those types of things have been very important in our growth.
Like one organization or one person tells somebody else about our program. And from there is how we have organically grown.
Christa Hein: Yeah. So when you're thinking about sustainability, how do you balance the farm income as far as the production and the education income to make a working business for your family?
Cindi Hughes: It has bounced back and forth. So during COVID, it was super challenging because we went from a thriving education program to just having to pivot to be a producing farm, to get us through that particular time until we could step back into education. And we have slowly, I think, got back to a balance where [00:11:00] production is one portion of it and education is another portion of it.
But really education is our main cash crop. So even though we're selling our produce, we want children to be in the field, harvesting things, helping to produce things, helping to plant things and such. And so there is a bit of casualties that happens with that particular educational process.
And we're 100% okay with that because really our cash crop or our main focus is teaching children and families about agriculture.
Christa Hein: Yeah, so that leads perfectly into what I want to talk about next, which is your programs. Can you give us a snapshot of the different types of programs that you've developed at Heritage Creek?
Cindi Hughes: So, we've done summer camp since 2012. And that remains to like - it's nine weeks of the summer and we have about 50 kids that are on the farm and about 10 to 15 teens that are [00:12:00] on the farm for each of those weeks. So that is a pretty comfortable number for us to be able to maintain.
And also not only just maintain from a staff standpoint, but also maintain from a relationship standpoint - being able to know most of the kids' names and at least by the middle to the end of the week, and to just have a relationship with the families that are here.
I think my main struggle is, and I have communicated this to my families, is we're a small farm. We don't have a full-time administrator. I'm part-time in the office and also full-time educator. And so when kids are on my farm, they are my main priority. And they will get emails from me in the early morning and late at night. And just knowing that their children are our main focus when they're here.
So, homeschool program. We currently have 26 kids in our homeschool program. It meets once a week. We have 22 days throughout the spring and fall [00:13:00] that they're here. We do seasonal farm camp days when kids are off of school. We just reintroduced a parent-child program that has been flourishing and I just truly love it.
It's been since before COVID that we've had the youngest kids on our farm, just from a logistics standpoint, and it's just been so nice to welcome the little ones back to the farm. And just providing, planting that little itty bitty seed. It's called Oaks and acorns.
Christa Hein: And I just want to interrupt you a little bit. I was looking at your social media pages and saw these amazingly beautiful pictures of what looked like a classroom for your littlest campers with all those natural wooden play toys and the little farm market stand Oh was just so beautiful. Ah, what a great space you've created there.
Cindi Hughes: Parents walk in there and they're just, they're just like, this is what I love. This is what I hope for my children, and this is what I wish my childhood had looked like.
Christa Hein: [00:14:00] Yeah, absolutely. So on your website, you mentioned full circle learning. What does that mean and what does that look like for a camper or student on your farm?
Cindi Hughes: Yes. So, the visitors, and I'll expand that to not only like children, but also to families. We want to provide an authentic agricultural experience, but not only are we teaching about agriculture and environmental, we also want it to be internal growth. So they're learning other skills, practical life skills, and one of the reasons why we chose the name Heritage Creek Farm Campus.
One, we have a creek running through our farm, but two, I am particularly passionate about preserving those things in the past. That are worthy of preserving. So our heritage, the heritage of, I mean so many aspects of agriculture and or agricultural adjacent fields.
So, the multidisciplinary curriculum is what we're really focusing on. [00:15:00] So how can we take the field of agriculture and also encompass regenerative agriculture, which includes the environment piece. How can we plug in some history details and some art pieces and some traditional crafting and all of these different aspects of learning into the time on the farm.
And so that's what I think that we're most passionate about, and I hope that's what people feel like we do best.
Christa Hein: Oh, that's such a beautiful description. It is really hard to believe that you don't have a formal education background. This seems to flow so naturally from you.
Cindi Hughes: I think I was really blessed to be around some really good educators during the time that my children were in elementary school, and so I've learned from some really good teachers about working with children and how to develop a curriculum that engages them.
Christa Hein: So, I see that you also bring the farm to schools [00:16:00] with baby chicks, seeds starting, even mobile markets.
What do those type of outreach programs mean to the kids and teachers, and how do you balance those with the programs at your farm.
Cindi Hughes: So right now, one of the things that we're doing is mobile market. And I love mobile market because this particular school that we partner with to do this, we are enhancing their business math curriculum.
Christa Hein: Ah.
Cindi Hughes: And so it's tying in my whole being in the tax office, my accounting piece, and really showing sixth graders what it's like as farming, as a business, you know?
So we're teaching inventory, we're teaching customer service, we're doing beginning and ending inventory, we're doing price listing, all of those types of things. And so they're coming to the farm and they're learning packaging and weighing and all of the skills that maybe they've learned a couple years prior, putting it all into an applicable experience.
And then they're heading back to the school. Our staff is finishing up, packing everything up, and then we head to [00:17:00] the school. The class comes out and they set up a mobile market there. And then they're also able to use their mental math skills to run this market.
And I just love it. I mean, talking about math and having it be in a state in which it's most applicable, it doesn't really get much better than that.
Christa Hein: That is amazing.
Cindi Hughes: yeah, yeah. And, and we've done it for years and it's actually one of the programs that I think I'm most proud of in the fall as far as our middle school curriculum is concerned. So, but it is, it is hard to manage on-farm learning and off-farm learning.
I mean, you just have to schedule ahead of time and be prepared with staff accordingly.
Christa Hein: So that's some really in-depth structured learning. They're getting so much out of that. And then you also have this authentic farm work that you want to incorporate in and also leave time for unstructured free play.
How do you balance those different aspects of learning that you want to [00:18:00] have available from or at your farm?
Cindi Hughes: All of our camp days as much as can be permitted as far as time is concerned, it's a little bit more difficult for field trips because their time is really short. Sometimes we only have two hours with them on the farm, and sometimes we have maybe four hours with them with the transportation time back and forth.
But we really, really try to have an in-breath and outbreath within our curriculum, meaning that there's structured activities and then there's also times for children to just explore nature and learn. It is amazing to see what children can do when they're not provided with very many things, just nature, what they come up with.
One of the funniest statements that I remember in the last couple years and would probably only happen at Farm Camp is that we're in free play and we have beautiful space by the creek that these kids are able to play. Has a mud kitchen, it has a tipi. Some of the barnyard animals are there, has an outdoor chessboard and a music wall.
[00:19:00] And so, the children have developed this currency which includes quartz. And so they find quartz on the farm and that's their currency on the farm. So one child walks by and says to me one day, farmer Cindi, did you see somebody walk by with a frying pan full of quartz? And I just started cracking up because that's just like something you would just never hear a child say.
But they come up with these beautiful things where they're trading natural materials to build forts and all of these things that even us as educators, there's no way we could have even come up with these types of things, and they're just learning and growing socially. And developing autonomy to be able to free play.
That's very challenging for some children, particularly those children who have been entertained their entire life, whether by a screen or by tv or by not really having very much options in their educational experience.
And so some children adapt to it really quickly and [00:20:00] most of them thrive. Some of them are challenged a little bit at first with not knowing what to do.
Christa Hein: But what a great experience for them to be able to have that opportunity to just relax and find where their inclination and interests are leading them.
Cindi Hughes: One of the things we do on Monday for our camps is we don't really have anything very structured until the afternoon. So our teachers are kind of just like sitting back and observing, seeing who we have for that week who is drawn to each other. What seems to be their interest? Do we have anybody who might be a runner that we're going to have to keep our eyes on?
You know, just trying to let them meet and greet each other and get accustomed to the farm before we're throwing anything at them as far as structure is concerned. And that has been like one of the greatest things we've probably adapted in our last three years, probably since post-COVID.
Christa Hein: What a great strategy to really let the kids explore and get to know [00:21:00] them. Beautiful.
So I'm curious, how would you describe your role today, farmer, educator, director, and then as well as your role, how do you prioritize your time on the farm?
Cindi Hughes: Yes. I've been described as the mother hen of farm camp. I mean, I put all in, which I'm sure you do as well. During the time in which we are, we are functioning from May to December, I'm the first person on the farm in the morning. I'm the last one to leave the educational piece before I head home.
I do live on the farm. So that has been interesting. And we've also moved from one portion of the farm to another portion of the farm recently, within the last couple years. And just finding how you keep your work at this place and your home within this.
And the other thing that I, my husband has recently been able to join me here on the farm, which he's always been like the person who's been behind the scenes, but now he's, he's [00:22:00] really invested in what we're doing. He was able to move from a job that kept him off the farm for a huge portion of the day. And now he is an instructor at a college, so he has his full summers to be here.
So, this past summer was the first summer that we were able to exclusively work together from mid-May to mid-August, and it was just delightful. We each have our own skills and our own skillset and our own passions. And thankfully we are able to work side by side on the land and just really, I'm very enthusiastic about what the next couple years will bring with us being able to combine our energies together.
I have the administrative piece. I am now a full-time teacher. I do all of the organizations and communications with all of the groups that are coming to the farm.
Is it challenging at times? It is. When you have groups coming seven, almost seven days a week to the farm. Sometimes summer seems a little bit easier because we [00:23:00] have more staff and it's kind of consistent flow for one week and then you reset and start again. Whereas in the spring and fall, we have a different group, a different age group using a different part of our facility, using a different curriculum, having a different curricular goals for the teachers, those types of things.
So, I do feel that my skillset of working in the office has been able to help me manage and organize that. And I'm always making lists and sending them out to our staff so everybody's on the same page. Because a lot of times we come step right into our role and we might not cross paths until later on in the day. So we all have to be in the same page as to what our, what our role is for that particular day.
Truly blessed with the best staff, and who sticks with me through thick and thin, year after year to be able to do it. But then also, if it changes from year to year, we don't stay stagnant.
Christa Hein: Yeah.
Cindi Hughes: So if our employees change from year to [00:24:00] year, it gives us an opportunity to pull upon their passions to be able to teach.
My employees always say, I am really good at matching task to talent or talent to task.
Christa Hein: That's a great compliment for sure. Oh, so I was going to ask you about your team next. So how large of a team do you have? Are they year-round, seasonal? You mentioned volunteers. What does your team look like?
Cindi Hughes: Initially we started with volunteers. We have shifted to just on-staff, mostly on-staff employees. It's just so much easier with clearances.
And so over the spring, we have myself and maybe three educators, and then over the summer, we have myself and my husband and three to four educators.
And so we just make it work. We've come to the point where I try to hire people with versatility. So that all of us can at some point go out to the field if we need to and harvest [00:25:00] anything that we need to. Maybe that's not their main role, but they're able to do that piece of it. And then we have some teachers that just come in and have a specialty.
So for example, I have a teacher who comes in and fiber arts and storytelling is her particular specialty. My husband is STEM and technology. In this past summer, his role was - he worked with our older campers and teens to construct a 30 by 72 greenhouse
Christa Hein: Nice.
Cindi Hughes: as part of STEM learning. And so we wanted to erect this greenhouse and we're like, why not involve the kids that could most benefit from learning those skills?
And it was really exciting for the kids. Even if they weren't involved in the actual portion of it, they felt that they were, because they could see from week to week the new greenhouse emerge.
Christa Hein: Yeah. So do you do the farming yourself, or do you have a farmer that manages the production for you?
Cindi Hughes: Yes, in the past we have had a farmer that has helped [00:26:00] to manage us. It is a very difficult thing to keep a farmer from year to year when it is in a seasonal role. We've tried to be able to have a farmer here full year, but there's not a lot of things to do in the dead of the winter here in Pennsylvania.
And so we are looking at that for the upcoming year as to what model we're going to run, whether we're going to step back even a little bit further and really make the production, make it that our educators can carry the production with us all working together is, is the way I think we'll be heading.
I'm not exactly sure. I'll need some downtime to be able to reflect on that and to think about how that might work going forward, but I think that's the direction we're heading.
Christa Hein: So, because you have an accounting background, I want to really glean a little bit more from that experience for our listeners. So is there anything that you would let them know that you found [00:27:00] most helpful? As you were starting out or now for keeping the business side sustainable, any kind of system or program that you just could not live without in that behind-the-scenes of the business.
Cindi Hughes: So ironically, I must say that even though I have an accounting background, it is one of my least favorite things to do right now.
Christa Hein: Ah.
Cindi Hughes: I mean, not that I, not that I don't do it well, but I would much prefer to be with the children than doing that piece of it. But I also know that that's what keeps us sustainable.
Do you know what I mean? Keeping an eye on what we're spending and what's coming in. And I know many camps use a particular system to administer their registration. It's always seemed to be so very costly and I have always felt that I have the skillset to be able to do that.
So, I do manage that all kind of manually making my own rosters and such. But we have trained [00:28:00] our clientele, our families to try to help us get all of that administrative stuff done before we hit the ground running in March. So, for example, we start registration for summer camp the 6th of January.
And we are pretty much full by the end of January and most of our payments are coming in before camp even starts. So we're trying to manage as much of that administrative piece so that I don't have to hire somebody to do that administrative role, which would then make our, the rates of coming to camp much higher.
So I've kind of trained our families, like work with me, you know, let's try to get the stuff all done before the farm gets busy for the spring.
Christa Hein: So it sounds like your system is advanced preparation.
Cindi Hughes: Advanced preparation. Yes. So that by the time the kids get here for the summer, we can just totally focus on just the children and what we would like to bring to them for their experience on the farm.
Christa Hein: So, you also have a CSA on your [00:29:00] farm and it's so cutely called Lettuce be Your Farmer. How do you use that as an extension of your educational programming?
Cindi Hughes: The CSA has changed from year to year. It was really flourishing during COVID because more people were focused, were worried about our food systems, our local food systems, and so many people were buying from the farm. What we've kind of shifted is we still produce for family, for communities, for community members.
We also offer when families register for camp that they can get a box from the farm of food for the week and or weeks that their kids are at camp. And that has really, really worked well. And I feel like that's 100% aligned with our like mission and philosophy of having the children help on the farm, helping them harvest, and then them being able to see that go to their table.
So making them be good consumers going into the future, even if they're not going to be educators or farmers or [00:30:00] environmentalists, you know, being good consumers is such an important skill. So that's where we're kind of moving more in towards that portion. Our CSA, our food production we have produced in larger scale for schools in the past, been a little bit challenging for the question that you had earlier.
How do we balance production with education? And that was a little bit challenging. And so we're just kind of finding our way and shifting as we go forward. Number one, following the interest of our community members and those that support our farm and the role that we wish to play in the community.
Christa Hein: Yeah, that the way that you offer the food to the farm families at the end of the week, that really sounds like your full circle learning that you were talking about, they can help raise that food, harvest that food, and then get to take that home with them. That's amazing.
So in the last couple minutes that we have - for someone just starting out, is there any kind of advice that [00:31:00] you would give them to help start their program?
Anything that you would share that you found as really valuable in your own journey?
Cindi Hughes: I think you are providing such a wonderful role for those just entering into our field. Fourteen years ago when I entered the field, I felt like I was all by myself. Like I was standing out in the field all by myself and there was nobody around me to be able to support. And I did a lot of trial and error to get to where I am.
And I know farmers are super busy and farm educators are super busy, but when people reach out to me anytime, if my schedule permits, I'm going to spend some time with them and try to support them in go in going forward. Because it is so hard to start.
But then if you reach out and you look at the organizations like Farm-Based Education Network or here in Pennsylvania we have PA Farm to School Network. We just recently connected not too long ago, and they are really doing wonderful work [00:32:00] in our state to support that farm to school component, both from a policy standpoint and from an education standpoint as well.
So just don't be afraid to ask others for help, because that's how we learn.
Christa Hein: Yeah, absolutely. So where can listeners find you online to learn more about Heritage Creek Farm and Education Center?
Cindi Hughes: So we do have a presence on Facebook, so you can find us at Heritage Creek Farm and Education Center.
And then you can also visit our website which we update regularly. That's one of my roles here on the farm. And I love to just keep people in touch with what's going-on on the farm.
They can also join our newsletter if they're locally here or they're interested in traveling into the area to visit our farm.
Christa Hein: Can you give us what your web address is?
Cindi Hughes: Yes. www.heritagecreekfarmcamp.com.
Christa Hein: Awesome. Cindi, thank you so much for sharing your story and giving us some behind the scenes of what it takes to build a thriving educational farm.
Cindi Hughes: Thank you so much.
Christa Hein: For our listeners, [00:33:00] I hope you're walking away with both inspiration and some practical steps. Whether you're dreaming of camps, planning school field trips, or simply looking to root kids in real work and play, I hope you found ideas to carry forward. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow the show and leave a quick review so more farm educators can find us.
Thank you for joining us on the Farm Educators Roadmap. Until next time, keep following your passions and building the farm and life that you've dreamed of.
Christa Hein: Hey farm educators. I hope you enjoyed today's episode. Before you go, I've got something special for you. If you're ready to build a farm education program that people are excited to book, grab my free guide, Five Simple Steps to Growing an In-Demand Farm Education Program. It's packed with the same steps I used to grow my own farm education business.
It'll help you get noticed, attract clients, and make an impact. Just head over to [00:34:00] www.farmeducatorsroadmap.com/fivesimplesteps to get your free copy. It's quick, easy, and will make your programs irresistible. I can't wait to see what you create. Thanks for listening, and I'll catch you in the next episode.
