45 - Codman Community Farms
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Christa Hein: Hey there, welcome to the Farm Educator’s Roadmap. I'm Christa Hein, former nonprofit girl turned farm education entrepreneur. I've spent the last 30 years creating hands-on programs that connect people to the land, animals, and the traditions that nourish our daily lives.
If you're listening, you probably believe what I do - that farm education is needed now more than ever. Not just on rural farms, but in suburbs, cities, and everywhere in between. In this podcast, you'll hear real stories and practical advice from farm educators all across the country, people who are creating change through their programs in creative and inspiring ways.
Whether you're dreaming about starting your first program, are already knee deep in your own farm education work, or are just curious about how others are impacting their communities through farm education, you're in the right place. [00:01:00] Let's dig in.
Christa Hein: Hi, welcome back to the Farm Educator’s Roadmap. Today's guest is Tana DeSandres, the education manager at Codman Community Farms in Lincoln, Massachusetts. Tana has spent nearly a decade working in farm education, including at Hidden Villa in California. A farm many listeners may remember from episode 32.
And now after a recent cross-country move, Tana is stepping into a new role helping expand educational programming at Codman's nonprofit regenerative farm that's deeply connected to its local community. Codman is a nonprofit working farm with roots going back to the early 1800s, and it's been operating as a community farm since 1973.
We're going to talk about what farm education looks like at Codman, how you can teach regenerative farming to children, and what Tana has [00:02:00] learned over her years in farm education.
Tana, thanks so much for joining us today.
Tana DeSandres: Thank you. I'm so excited to be here.
Christa Hein: Awesome. So, I always love to start at the beginning because so many people listening are still trying to figure out their own path into this work.
You've been doing farm education for about 10 years now. What got you into this work in the first place?
Tana DeSandres: Yeah, I really love that question. I think from a really young age, I just felt so at home in nature. I am originally from California and was really lucky to grow up just outside of Yosemite National Park in this little town, nestled in the foothills of the Sierra Nevadas. And was really fortunate that both my parents worked in education, and so we had a lot of time in the summers to go off and explore.
And we spent a lot of time on the river outside of Yosemite, and getting to explore and hike waterfalls. And it instilled in me this interest and this love of being outdoors. And I knew that I somehow [00:03:00] wanted to get into a field that would offer an opportunity to be able to work in outdoor spaces and bring others into those spaces as well.
And so, when I was in college and I was trying to figure out exactly which direction I was going to go in. I knew that I wanted to work in education, but I wasn’t entirely sure about how to get into educating outdoors. And it wasn't until I spent a week in college volunteering at a residential outdoor science program, that I got to see that these folks were in these roles of outdoor educators, and they were taking students to gardens, and they were going and exploring the forests.
And I was like, this just seems like an absolutely incredible way to get to spend your time. Exploring the outdoors with kids, getting them excited, generating a lot of curiosity and wonder for the natural world. And so, I knew from that point on this is the path that I want to take. How am I going to get there?
And so, after graduating from college, started to look for any opportunities to work in this field [00:04:00] and eventually got my start in a residential outdoor science school program. So, like fifth grade science camp. And I worked at three different outdoor schools in California.
And from there it was while I was working at an outdoor school in the Santa Cruz mountains, they had this incredible garden coordinator, and I just felt like she was welcoming people into the garden in such a beautiful and inclusive, just so welcoming, and all of her curriculum and lessons that she designed, I really appreciated.
And so, I was like, I think I want to go from being a naturalist. I want to find a way into the garden and farm world. And so, started to look for opportunities to gain more experience gardening and was really interested about getting into farm education.
And while I was working in San Diego, I had an opportunity to work on a farm that was really focused on bringing youth out to that space and educating and sharing their mission. And then I relocated [00:05:00] from San Diego up to Los Altos Hills and found Hidden Villa. And was lucky enough to spend just over three years there as their garden coordinator and a farm educator and had an absolutely wonderful experience there.
And then just a few months ago when I decided to relocate across the country, I was so excited to find Codman, because farm education, I feel so passionate about, and I really wanted to continue to do that work. And was a little unsure of what that would look like here in Massachusetts and was so happy to find a farm that I feel like is embodying everything that I'm really passionate about and love to teach about.
Christa Hein: I love that story because it really shows what impact programs can have on children. Like, you were so inspired by that program and then by that one garden coordinator to really move in this direction. You just never know what impact we could all be making on children that we are serving.
So, I want to just pause a bit in your [00:06:00] story of where you worked at Hidden Villa, because it's such a well-known farm education organization. I don't know, it may be the oldest one. What were you doing when you were there, and then what did that experience teach you about what farm education can be at its best?
Tana DeSandres: While I was there at Hidden Villa, I was a part of the education team, but my role was split between helping to lead students in education experiences, but then also helping to tend to our education garden. It's a garden that was very well tended and very well loved for many years by many different people. And to be the person who was helping to coordinate the care of that space was such a joy.
So, my time was split between taking care of that space and then leading programming. And I just feel like the design of the programs at Hidden Villa, to get to be there through that process, and then get to help teach those programs, was such a delightful experience.
I love that so much of the program is centered around this ‘care, [00:07:00] learn, do’ model. And so, our youngest farm visitors are coming and they're really trying to build empathy, they're engaging with the world in their senses, they're making these up close interactions with animals and with the plants.
And then from there, for students who are more kind of middle elementary school, we were diving more into that model of wanting them to make those connections, to look for the interconnectedness between different things in nature and farming, and how those two things can work together.
And then for our oldest visitors to the farm, really wanting to have them feel empowered to take everything that they've learned and then go out into the world and be able to make a difference and act on things that they're feeling passionate about.
Christa Hein: Beautiful. So, then you relocated from California to the Boston area and stepped into the education manager role at Codman. That's a big transition. A new place, a new farm, a new community. What drew you to the particular role at Codman?
Tana DeSandres: Yeah, I [00:08:00] really love the community aspect. I think that was something that a Hidden Villa I felt so steeped in community. And when I was moving, I was hoping to find a place that also felt like the community was really invested, and there were a lot of wonderful volunteers who were giving their time, and wanting to be in a space like that again.
And so that was a really big thing that drew me to Codman. I also love the way that they're farming here. It feels very similar to farms I've been a part of in the past. And to get to highlight animals being out on pasture and getting to teach about that, felt like an opportunity I was really excited to get to step into.
Christa Hein: Nice. So, Codman Community Farms has been a part of Lincoln since 1973. It's both a working regenerative farm and a nonprofit educational organization. Can you paint us a picture of the farm itself and also share the mission?
Tana DeSandres: Yeah, absolutely. Well, I can share that our mission is to operate a working farm that preserves Lincoln's rural [00:09:00] character while highlighting the importance of local farming, local food, while inviting community involvement through educational programs. So that's a little bit about our mission.
And then when you come to the farm, it's really lovely because you pull into the parking lot, and then one of the first things that you see is our farm store. And the farm store is a feature that I think is really unique and special. In our farm store we have our own proteins and our own produce that we're making here on the farm. But it's open to the community 24/7 and it's the very first space that you're welcomed into.
From there, as you make your way around the farm store, you make your way to the heart of the farm essentially. And there we have our education pavilion, which is a really beautiful little post in beam covered space that has these big, wide open doors that look out into one of our pastures. And it's a really beautiful space that folks are welcome to come and bring their lunch and picnic, and they can watch the cows as they're out on pasture. Right now, especially, everything is so green and [00:10:00] lush here, so it's just lovely.
And then off to the side, we have a couple of our growing spaces. So, we've got our high tunnel, we have our greenhouse, and then our market garden. Which is used for so many education programs. It's a space that folks are welcome to meander about and take a look at what's growing. And then for so many of our summer programs and our afterschool programs, it's a space that we are in and out of quite a bit.
But along the way you can also see some of our education animals. So, we have four Nigerian Dwarf goats that are right alongside the market garden. So, there's so much to meander about and take a look at and get to experience and enjoy.
Christa Hein: Nice. So, the farm has a really strong focus on pasture raised animals and regenerative farming practices. Can you explain what that actually looks like day to day on your farm? And then step that also into how you explain that to children or visitors in a way that can feel tangible to them.
Tana DeSandres: Yeah, absolutely. I think for me, the biggest [00:11:00] thing with regenerative agriculture is that we're doing so much to give back to the soil. And so, we're being really mindful about how we're interacting with the soil, animals that we're putting on that soil, and how they're impacting it. And so going back to the health and wellbeing and trying to encourage soil fertility.
How that looks at the farm is that we raise cattle, we raise pigs, we raise laying hens, as well as chickens for meat out on different pastures. So, the farm itself is about 18 acres, but then we are helping to manage about 150 acres of town owned land across Lincoln. And the way that we're doing that is through managing the land with animals.
And getting to see the animals out on pasture foraging and engaging in natural behaviors and helping to offer a lot to that soil is something that's really fun for people to see as they're driving around. We take groups out to pastures to go and take a look and to see the animals engaging in this work. And just last week, I took a group out and we had an opportunity to go see the chickens on [00:12:00] pasture.
And our animals are always in motion, which I think is something that's a really interesting feature. So, they're out on these enormous pastures. And our livestock team is moving with our laying hens; they're moving them every two days. And so, they're in a space with these large mobile chicken coops that have everything they need, places to lay eggs, and water, and food. They have tons of fresh grass that they're able to forage. And then when their two days come up, we slowly move them around and then they're moving all across this huge pasture over a season. And so, getting to see the chickens out there foraging and engaging in those behaviors.
We had students help us to collect eggs out on pasture, and then they can really see the difference that they're making because the chickens are helping to stimulate the growth of the grass. They are getting to see how that brief impact really does create some lush spaces and benefits the overall health of the birds as well as all of our animals. So, you can see that with the pigs and the [00:13:00] cows as well.
Christa Hein: So, I want to plug to listeners, there's a really great video on their website that you can actually see this all happening. I was watching it this morning, and I just love to see the green growth that was coming after the chickens and the way that the pigs were working up the soil before that was being transformed. So, yeah, just a beautiful system.
So, I want to go back to something that you mentioned which was your self-serve farm store, which operates on an honor system, which I think is really unique. Can you describe what role that plays in connecting the community to the farm?
Tana DeSandres: Absolutely. I think that it's definitely a space that the community feels very welcomed into. As I mentioned briefly, we do carry our own proteins and our own produce in the farm store. And so, there's always different offerings each week, which can be really exciting. We also partner with some other like-minded local farms to carry some of their products.
So, there's always a rotating array [00:14:00] of different things that are available. And it is exciting to see the same people coming back each week to get their bread or to get their eggs. Getting to hear about the impact that this space has had on them and how they feel so connected.
It is open 24/7, three hundred and sixty five days a year, which feels very unique. Folks are always welcome to come by and get what they need. And yeah, I love that it is one of the first things that you see when you arrive at the farm because it does feel like a space for people to be welcomed into and learn a little bit more about local food and get to help support in that way.
Christa Hein: Yeah, I'm sure that welcoming nature helps them feel a little bit of ownership for the farm. There is no time I'm not allowed to be here. What a beautiful gift that you're giving them through that.
Tana DeSandres: Yeah.
Christa Hein: I want to dive into your education programs. Can you give us a snapshot of the different types of learning experiences that are offered at Codman?
Tana DeSandres: Yeah. We have quite a range of different programs ranging from field trip groups, which are [00:15:00] welcome to kindergarten all the way up through high school with our field trip programs. Typically, a visit to the farm looks like getting to make their way around to visit with some of the animals, depending on the time of year, if it's before the animals have gone out to pasture, there are more animals on the farm that they can see.
And so, our animals have just started to make their way out for the season. But currently when they come to the farm, they can go and visit with our education goats. We have some education rabbits. We still have our piglets here who are about to make their way out to pasture very soon. And so, they get to see the animals up close and learn about the animal's role in regenerative farming.
And then from there we make our way into the market garden where they get to engage in a hands-on task or activity, something that goes towards supporting that space and offering students an opportunity to get their hands on something. We've done some planting activities. We've done different scavenger hunts, so it always looks a little bit different depending on the grade that we're welcoming out.
And then they get to [00:16:00] take a tour of the farm itself. So, we'll make our way around, get to see all of the different pieces, the farm store, the barns. We'll get to make our way up and see some of the more historic places on the property. So, it's a blend of some animals, some time spent in our garden, as well as a general tour of the space.
Christa Hein: And you said it goes all the way up to university students. Wow.
Tana DeSandres: Yes, and some high school programs. We have some college programs that are coming out very soon. So yeah, quite a range of ages that we're welcoming out for our field trips.
I do really love some of our high school and college programs are really interested in going out onto pasture and helping to collect eggs, which just feels like a really meaningful experience of getting to see what that process is like and the excitement of getting to be a part of that.
But apart from our field trip programs, we do also have an after school program called Little Farmer's Helper. And our Farmer's Helper program meets once a week, and we get to make our way around the farm. We've helped out our livestock [00:17:00] team with a few different little tasks. We'll go and we'll meet the animals up close. We've helped in the market garden and get to plant some seeds. So, it's just a very sweet class that's offered for six weeks throughout the spring. And then we do another session in the fall.
Christa Hein: And do they come every day after school or just one day a week for that?
Tana DeSandres: Typically, just one day a week. So, we'll offer one that's geared for five to eight year olds. And then we do offer a program for slightly younger friends, so three to five year olds as well. So, two different offerings that they'll meet one day a week.
And then in the summertime, we have a summer program in the mornings called our Summer Barn Buddies Program. And that program, the friends who will be here for that will be here for an entire week, and we run 12 weeks of it in the summer. And we're doing so many different things. They'll go out on pasture and help collect eggs. One day we have a different theme, so one day we might be solely centered around the goats, or another day may be centered [00:18:00] around pollinators.
And we'll go into our market garden space. We have a pick your own flower section and students may help to learn about flowers and get to pick some flowers to take home. So, we're just engaging in a variety of different projects and activities each day centered around a different theme on the farm, which feels like a very special and sweet program.
Christa Hein: Nice. So, I've read that pasture raised animal systems are a defining feature of what Codman does. So how do you teach that to a group of kids in a way that's meaningful? Not just, here's a chicken, but here's why this way matters. And then why does that feel so important to you educationally?
Tana DeSandres: Yeah. I think for me, going back to that empathy piece of knowing that these animals are giving so much to us and wanting to ensure that these animals are being raised in a way that feels sustainable, feels ethical, and being able to take students out there and to show them how much space they have that they are getting.
To engage in these natural [00:19:00] behaviors that they are helping to contribute to the cycle of we're taking care of the animals and they are helping to take care of the earth. And it feels like this really beautiful cycle. And to get to take students out there to show that and get to have them see the animals in that space, it does feel like a special way to get to share about that.
We do oftentimes have visitors or young children who can't make their way all the way out to the pastures. And so, wanting to highlight by taking them to go and visit some of our other animals by sharing the important role that these animals have, and then by trying to find ways to still illustrate the work that our animals are doing out on pasture.
But it is something that I'm always trying to navigate and find ways to connect students to that work.
Christa Hein: Yeah, I think those two ways that you mentioned, children are so connected to their emotions that way. And to see the empathy for animals that they just naturally love. And then the idea of cycles as well, yeah. That makes so much sense for [00:20:00] them because that's so much of what they're learning at that age, especially for your Barn Buddies there in the summer.
Tana DeSandres: Yeah, definitely.
Christa Hein: So, it sounds like education isn't only for children at Codman, the farm is also functioning as a community gathering place in a much broader way. So, you offer adult education programs, workshops, farm to table cooking classes, dinners, and community events. Who are the adults showing up for the programs and what are they looking for? And then I'm also curious how those types of experiences fit into the larger mission of the farm?
Tana DeSandres: Yeah, I think that a big piece of what we're doing here at Codman is trying to educate through inviting the community in for a variety of different experiences.
And so, a part of what we do is we have a commercial kitchen that's connected to our farm store, and we do have a number of different cooking classes or different classes that are geared for folks who are wanting to have more of a hands-on connection to their food and where it's coming from. And then learning [00:21:00] different ways to prepare and create different meals. And so, I think that's one way that folks are coming into the space joining for different classes centered around our kitchen.
But we've had so many different classes and I feel like so many different people from the community are interested or called to come and join. We recently had a seed starting and greenhouse tour workshop, and it was a really lovely way for folks who were so curious about how to get started in this whole process. How to start a garden, how to get seeds started. Which can feel really daunting in the beginning. And so, to get to be there and encourage them and offer some support in that beginning stage of this whole process felt like a really lovely class offering.
But we've held so many different classes. We have some coming up that are centered around sustainable landscaping and introduction to composting. And so, a pretty wide variety of courses that are offered here.
Christa Hein: So, I imagine that community dinners and events create a very different atmosphere than say, [00:22:00] a school field trip. What do you notice happens when adults gather around food that was grown right there on the farm?
Tana DeSandres: That's such a lovely question. We've had several food events since I've been here and to get to see folks come in for their meal and sit and chat and connect, and get to look out onto the pastures… I feel like so many stories have come up about how folks have been connected to this space and how connected people feel to their food, knowing that it was raised right here on the farm or the veggies were harvested here.
It feels like a special thing that people really love and so, I think that the events that are centered around food really highlight that in such a beautiful way.
Christa Hein: So, one thing that I think listeners sometimes struggle with is imagining how diversified farm education businesses and programs can really become. Codman has animals, field trips, afterschool programs, food events, [00:23:00] flowers, the farm store, all working together. What have you learned about building a farm that serves the community in so many different ways?
Tana DeSandres: I think that because there are so many different ways that the community is being invited into this space, it's been really fun to get to see the different ways that this place impacts folks. I think that seeing it through the eyes of children is something that I get to see a lot.
But then when we shift and I get to see it from a different perspective of folks who are coming to pick up their weekly meal from the kitchen or getting to talk with people in the farm store, it's been really unique to hear so many different perspectives and how deeply connected people feel from a very young age all the way through being an adult.
So, I think that because there are so many different ways that the community is invited in, it's offered an array of stories and perspectives that feels very special to get to listen to and hear.
Christa Hein: I know many people listening dream about creating educational farm [00:24:00] spaces. So, I always like to ask for reflections and advice. So, you're a few months in at Codman Farms, which has this 50 years of history behind it, and you came from a farm with a hundred years of history behind it. So, what's something you've learned about what it takes to build education programming in a place where the farm itself might be a part of their curriculum?
Tana DeSandres: I think that just knowing that there's so many different ways to provide programming. I think both Hidden Villa and Codman do have a lot of similarities, but the programs do look very different. And so, knowing that you can integrate the farm and integrate the animals in so many different ways, and there's not really a recipe for the right way to do it.
I think that there's so many different opportunities for engaging with animals and engaging with the garden and knowing that there are so many different ways to go about diving into this work.
Christa Hein: So, after 10 years in farm [00:25:00] education yourself, I'm curious, what's something that you've stopped doing? Maybe an approach or an assumption that you've let go of because the work showed you that it wasn't quite right.
Tana DeSandres: I think that for me, knowing that there are so many teachable moments that happen throughout the course of a program. And I think something that I've stopped doing is going into the day with a really structured plan for what I'm hoping to accomplish. I'll still go into it with some loose objectives of these are the ideas that I'm hoping to highlight, or these are the different stops along the way. But then just letting the farm itself be the guiding force for the program.
There are times where I have ideas of what we're going to talk about or what we're going to dive into, and then the students get so interested in something connected to the goats. And the other day it was all about the different adaptations that goats have, and we spent so much time diving into this topic and the students were so engaged and so interested.
And so, I think allowing for some fluidity in topics that are [00:26:00] coming up and just letting the farm reveal some little magical teaching moments along the way.
Christa Hein: Great. So, what kinds of skills or mindsets do you think matter most for somebody wanting to work in this field? And then kind of related to that, is there any advice you'd give someone who feels drawn towards farm education but maybe isn't sure quite how to begin?
Tana DeSandres: Yeah, I think that just knowing there are so many different ways to enter into this field. I was anticipating I was going to be going into classroom education, and then slowly through outdoor education found gardening, and then eventually farm education. And so, knowing that not everyone's path looks the same, everyone is entered into this space from a very different background. And just knowing that there's so many opportunities to find your way into the farm education world.
Advice and things that I feel like are really helpful are just being able to be creative and the willingness to adapt. I know with working outdoors there are so many different things, whether it's the weather [00:27:00] or movement of animals or whatever is happening in the garden that day. Not everything is always the same and can be counted on. And so just that willingness to be flexible and creative. And then again, be open to those teaching moments when they present themselves because I think a lot of magic can be discovered just by letting the farm, and letting nature lead the way.
Christa Hein: Absolutely. So, looking ahead, what are you most excited about building or growing at Codman Community Farms?
Tana DeSandres: Yes, there's so many things that I'm excited about. I'm really excited to continue to build out our field trip programs. There have been a number of schools who have reached out, who have not been here before, and are really curious about our program offerings. So that's a big one. I'm excited to just invest more and delve into what field trips could look like here.
But then also with our summer programs. Summer programs are things that I love. And so getting to build out some curriculum for those programs and welcome all of the friends who will be joining us this summer is something that I'm also very excited [00:28:00] for.
But volunteering is also one that is very near and dear to my heart. When I worked at Hidden Villa in the Garden Space, welcoming volunteers into the garden consistently was something that I really loved and valued and was able to build some really wonderful relationships with the folks who were coming to volunteer. And so, also wanting to try and build out more education, volunteer involvement here at Codman.
I'm currently recruiting for folks to come and learn about our programs and feel empowered and comfortable to step into a teaching role. And so, wanting to try to find a way to build out our volunteer program is something that I'm also very hopeful and excited about.
Christa Hein: Nice. Yeah. What exciting goals. So finally, for listeners who want to follow your work or learn more about Codman Community Farms, where can they find you all online?
Tana DeSandres: Yeah, so we are on Instagram at Codman Community Farms, but then also our website, codmancommunityfarms.org is a great place.
Christa Hein: Great. Thank you. I love the way that [00:29:00] Codman Community Farms is blending regenerative farming, community connection, and hands-on education in such an integrated way. And I think your focus on helping people understand pasture raised systems and ethical food production feels especially important right now when so many people are craving a more direct connection to where their food comes from.
Tana, thank you so much for taking the time to share your story and the work you're doing.
Tana DeSandres: Thank you so much. It was such a joy to be here today.
Christa Hein: Oh, absolutely. To our listeners, whether you already run a farm education program or are still dreaming about creating one someday, I hope this episode reminded you that meaningful farm education can happen in so many different forms. Through chores, shared meals, community spaces, animal care, and those everyday interactions that help people connect with agriculture in a real and personal way.
If you enjoyed this episode, I'd love if you'd follow, leave a review, or share the podcast with someone [00:30:00] else who cares about connecting people to farming, food, and nature. Until next time, keep teaching, keep growing, and keep connecting people to the land.
Christa Hein: Hey farm educators, I hope you enjoyed today's episode. Before you go, I've got something special for you. If you're ready to build a farm education program that people are excited to book, grab my free guide Five Simple Steps to Growing an In Demand Farm Education Program. It's packed with the same steps I used to grow my own farm education business.
It'll help you get noticed, attract clients, and make an impact. Just head over to www.farmeducatorsroadmap.com/fivesimplesteps to get your free copy. It's quick, easy, and will make your programs irresistible. I can't wait to see what you create. Thanks for listening, and I'll catch you in the next episode.
