Episode 48 – Infinity Academy
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Christa Hein: Hey there, welcome to the Farm Educator’s Roadmap. I'm Christa Hein, former nonprofit girl turned farm education entrepreneur. I've spent the last 30 years creating hands-on programs that connect people to the land, animals, and the traditions that nourish our daily lives.
If you're listening, you probably believe what I do - that farm education is needed now more than ever. Not just on rural farms, but in suburbs, cities, and everywhere in between. In this podcast, you'll hear real stories and practical advice from farm educators all across the country; people who are creating change through their programs in creative and inspiring ways.
Whether you're dreaming about starting your first program, are already knee deep in your own farm education work, or are just curious about how others are impacting their communities through farm education, you're in the right place. [00:01:00] Let's dig in.
Christa Hein: Welcome back to another episode of The Farm Educator's Roadmap. Today we're heading north of the border to Ridgeway, Ontario, where sisters Gillian Berard and Jenna Baggott helped create a school that looks very different from the traditional classroom many of us grew up in. Infinity Academy sits on 17 acres and combines academic and project-based learning, French immersion, nature, homesteading, entrepreneurship, wellness, and a biodynamic farm school.
Their students might be learning math and literacy in the morning, and then collecting maple sap, caring for animals, building something in their maker space, cooking, gardening, or creating a business later that day. Gillian spent more than a decade in public education, while Jenna came into this work from nursing and healthcare.
After years of talking about doing education differently, a [00:02:00] profound family loss finally pushed them to stop talking about the dream and build it. And now, just a few years later, they're not only running the school, they're building a huge online community around the idea that education can look different.
So, there is a lot I want to talk about today. Jenna and Gillian, welcome to the show.
Jenna & Gillian: Thank you for having us. Yes, thank you.
Christa Hein: Absolutely. Gillian, I want to start with you because I understand this idea was in your head spinning around for something like 15 years before Infinity Academy actually existed. What were you seeing as a public school teacher that made you start imagining something different?
Jenna & Gillian: That's a great question. I spent the first couple years teaching, going through a very robotic, get my checklist done, and just do what I need to do, and put the grade on the report card. And it was actually the students in front of me that sparked this inside of me. Because what I noticed is that they were [00:03:00] very interested in things, but I didn't have time to tap into that because I had 200 expectations that I have to legally give a grade on and teach these things that you can't really deviate from.
And you see all the ideas in them. And I don't think anyone intentionally goes into schools thinking, "Hey, I can't wait to crush creativity today," but that's how the system is built. And that's when the spark started to happen is, "Well, why do we have to do things this way? Why do I have to have this checklist? Why do I have to have this rubric? Why this? Why that?"
And it was also an administrator, and one of my mentors, who would come in and help with coaching and consulting. There are a lot of people in education who want to shift and know that there needs to be change as well. It's just there's a lot of red tape involved in that. And so, they sparked those questions as well as, "Well, let's research this."
And we actually got a grant in my first few years of teaching where it was teaching math through project-based learning. And I think getting that grant really shifted [00:04:00] things for me, because we went and started visiting other schools. And then that led me to visiting other schools in another country as well, and seeing how people were doing things differently. So that really started to shift things for me.
And then I started to put it into practice. And as I started to put it into practice, the classroom looked different. It's a little bit louder. It's a lot more hands-on. People start questioning you and maybe saying some things of, "Why are you doing things this way?" And I actually had a parent who was like, "Well, where are all the worksheets?" while we were doing woodworking in our classrooms.
And that led me to do a lot more research because I felt like I was defending myself that this is what's best for kids.
And I can see it happening in front of me right now. And you should see all the skills that they're building. Not only academics can we weave through, but also these life skills that are essential, that are very subjective and very hard to assess. And in public education, you don't really meaningfully assess those types of skills. It's pushed to the side, and it's very just academic based.
And so, I was defending [00:05:00] myself. I spent a long time, every single night going through all the curriculums, all the research, and everything was saying the same thing: project-based, inquiry-based learning, developing skills and academics at the same time. So, I felt I was defending that.
I kept going through and kept trying to push that, but I ran into a lot of barriers in the sense that there's no consistency, there's no cohesion, and then the structure of public education, again, is very academic-based. You have to give a grade whether they know this expectation or not, even though they're probably going to forget it in three months from now when they come back from summer break anyway.
So, you can't change the way you teach until you change the way you assess, so I actually don't think anything in public education will change until that assessment piece changes, and that's what we're doing at Infinity Education right now and Infinity Academy.
So, I went and I knew this was right. I kept on going. I kept trying to implement project-based learning, and I just felt like I was running into barriers. You couldn't fully do it because the system hasn't changed. There's lots of people who want to change, and you see the [00:06:00] kids thrive in that setting, too.
I had so many parents on board. They were seeing all the hands-on learning that we were doing. But it was also a lot of work as the person on the frontline with massive class sizes, huge needs, a system that doesn't support it and the structures. So, there's lots of barriers involved, and that's why I don't think that it will truly change in public education for probably another century. It will take more time.
So, that was the frustrating part for me. I saw it was best for kids, parents were seeing the results as well. And that parent who first questioned me at the start of the year wondering where all the worksheets were, actually came back and thanked me at the end of the year and saw what I was doing in the end there and saw those skills develop and those projects unfold, but it takes time to get into that.
So that's what started shifting things for me. What I see in education is kids come in, they learn how to sit at a desk and wait for a teacher to tell them what to do. And I think that's the biggest problem, is that as [00:07:00] humans we're adaptable and they just become very comfortable with waiting to know what to do next. And if we want to create self-directed passionate learners that have agency and autonomy, we have to develop those intentionally at the start. Which means that you have to craft your structure and your flow of day with those things in mind.
But the public education system does exact opposite of that. It's a one-size-fits-all approach, and it's a wait until the person at the front of the room tells you what to do. And so, if we want children to have the skills to thrive in the world today, we need kids taking action. We need to be developing skills. They need to be tapping into their interests.
I also saw a ton of mental health issues as well. Again, they're disconnected from their passions. They're disconnected from nature. Of course, we're going to have this issue. And I spent some of my time at my end of my career as a math coach and going from school to school and seeing the mental health crisis that's happening. And I just feel like there was a lot of Band-Aid solutions of resources for when the kids get older, but we're not looking at the root cause.
What's [00:08:00] happening till they get to that point? They are slowly being disconnected, and again, I don't think any teacher intentionally goes into school thinking that, but it's what's slowly happens over time. So large class sizes, disconnected from passions, disconnected from nature, this passive task completion approach that I just have to do what the teacher says I have to do; those for me are the biggest issues happening.
And they're hard barriers to break because the system is so large So again, you can't change the way you teach until you change the way you assess, and that assessment structure is over three decades old. If you looked at my report card from when I was a child and the ones that they have now, very little has changed.
Christa Hein: Yeah. So, it sounds like you were really aiming to create a whole new system then?
Jenna & Gillian: Yeah. And in the staff room we would talk a lot about, we would dream, "Oh, if I had a school, we would do X, Y, and Z," or, "We would have this," or, "I would have no bells," or, "We would only teach these subjects. I wouldn't have these random facts [00:09:00] that they have to know that they're going to forget."
So, we started dreaming up these ideas, and I would talk about it to people. And at first, I didn't actually think it was something that would really unfold, just because it's a very big task to take on. But it's something that, my close colleagues and I would talk about if, if, if, and if, if we had this.
And then the idea started to come into play when I had my own kids as well. It's like, "Well, what am I going to do? Am I going to work at a place that I don't align with and send my kids to a place that I don't align with either?" And would be talking about it with my mom and Jenna just in passing. So, it's been percolating for a really long time of what it could look like.
And if you had told me we would be here 15 years ago, I would have never believed you. This is beyond our wildest dreams already. So, we know that in the next 10 years from now to dream big and have a big vision because this is only the beginning here.
Christa Hein: Yeah. So, Jenna, your experience with children and families came from an entirely different direction. You were a NICU nurse, lactation consultant, and [00:10:00] childbirth educator. So, what was happening in those years that made you start thinking that maybe the place you could make the biggest impact wasn't a hospital, but in education?
Jenna & Gillian: Yeah. So, I, similar to Gillian, I started out in healthcare just doing what I was told, checking all the boxes, making sure my charting was right. And then over the years, you start to see chronic problems come up, and I saw a lot of Band-Aid solutions as well. The same thing. I see a lot of similarities between healthcare and education.
So, a lot of Band-Aid solutions, and I was being like, "Well, we're really good at pathologizing, but what about wellness? What about health? What about all of that? We're not touching on any of that. What is that?" So, I became a little bit obsessed with what is it that we need to thrive? What builds vitality? What makes us healthy? All that kind of stuff.
And it's funny because one of my mentors, Zach Bush, started out as a physician. And his journey through figuring out, through cancer and hospice and ICU and all that, brought him back what does create health, [00:11:00] brought him all the way back to soil. And I thought that was so cool because soil, the biodiversity in soil and how the degradation of our soil is leading to degradation of our health.
So, this was seeing things in a bigger picture, and that was happening for me, and then COVID hit. And everything was shut down and school was brought into my home. So, I was seeing a lot of things that I probably wouldn't have seen had COVID not happened. And that's when we started talking a lot more about it. I was telling her what I was seeing, and I was like, "What are we... What is this… like?"
And my daughter was four at the time, and I was taking this approach of what makes a child healthy, what makes them thrive, and seeing these problems in education, and that's really when the conversation got started between me and Gillian. "Oh, we need to do this." I want my kids in an environment that's supports their whole health. Not just math and literacy and science. I want her to thrive, and that's how it got rolling for me.
Christa Hein: So, you had talked about this idea of this school, and then you lost your brother very [00:12:00] unexpectedly in 2023. And I read that his last email to you ended with, "Love you to infinity." Can you tell us about him and why losing him became this thing that finally made you stop putting this dream of a school off?
Jenna & Gillian: Yeah, it's hard to put into words. But I think, when unexpected grief like that happens and your life is really turned upside down, it's a moment in time that makes you question everything, really. What are you doing? We had this running in the background, but you really think "My time here is finite." What are we doing?
And we saw what the lead up was to that tragedy, and I think it shifts your perspective of life. Yeah. Right? And that you, like Jenna said, only have a finite amount of time, and that some people aren't here to live out their dreams, so I better be doing our part here to live out ours.
And that's kind of the message I keep getting from him anyways is, “You've got this. You can do this. You have all [00:13:00] the resources and community and to support to be able to do this, and the people to do this, so go out and take action.”
So, I honestly think it was the moment that gave us the courage to do it, too. To really step into it, because this isn't something that you step in one foot at a time. We all dove in 1,000% together. Yeah. And so, I think this is what he would've wanted us to do, too. So, it's what we wanted to do, so it really gave us the courage.
And you're in the fog of grief and what's happened. You don't try to rationalize all the things why you shouldn't do it. It's like, just go all in on these things. And I feel like all of those things that would've held us back, like what about the finances? What about this? What about that? All that kind of fell to the wayside because all we had was a dream. So, all those what ifs, what about this, it's in that moment of we just have to do this, just took over.
And we did something, looking back, in our [00:14:00] right minds we probably wouldn't have done. But it turned out to be such a gift and such a blessing, and something that we really feel like we've got a lot of support in doing together.
Christa Hein: So, then you went looking for a property, and I read that you found a pond that was shaped like an infinity symbol. I mean, come on, tell me what happened that day. That is such serendipity.
Jenna & Gillian: Yeah. So, he passed away in June, and it was beginning of October. And in September, my daughter had gone back to school, and that's when I called Gillian and I said, "It doesn't matter what we do. Like, we have to do this school." And I thought she was going to be like, "Oh, you're crazy. We should wait." She's like, "Yep, absolutely." She was like, "Yes."
So, this was in September. And then in October she sent the property to us, and I was in Ottawa at the time, so that's five hours away. And we looked at it online, and we just packed up on the weekend and came right down to come and see it right away. And we walked on, and we just knew, it just felt like home. It just felt so beautiful. We're like, “This [00:15:00] is so wonderful." It had everything we needed.
And then the owner at the time, she showed us the pond at the front. And Gillian and I had already decided that we wanted to call it Infinity Academy because he was an engineer, it’s what he loved and in that last message. And then she said, "Oh, I have this very special pond. It’s Steiner. I don't know if you know about Steiner and water," and I'm really driven by Steiner's work. And she said, "It's a really unique filtration system. I ordered it in from Europe, and it filters the water through this infinity symbol coming down the bottom."
And we looked at each other, and we just fell apart in that moment, and we're just like, "Oh my goodness this has to happen." Yeah, this is it. So that was really a…
Christa Hein: Oh, I’m getting goosebumps just listening to you.
Jenna & Gillian: Yeah. That was the first place she took us on the property, too. Yeah. So right when we start off, we're like, "We don't even need to look at it. We know this is it." And then we walked the property, and we just could envision the whole school being here. And the layout of things was just, it was made for a school to happen. [00:16:00]
And then we were hemming and hawing about it because the investment, how we're going to make it work. And then a couple weeks later it came off the market, and we were like, "Oh dear, did we miss it?" And we're like, "Oh, maybe it's a good thing." And Gillian had been telling people around town, we live in a smaller town, about her dream and what she wanted.
And then one day out of the blue, a local cafe owner called Gillian and said, “Gillian, you told me about your dream. I have this woman and she's trying to sell her property, and I really think it would be perfect for you. You should go. She's trying to sell it." And it was this property that she had spoken to. She reached out. So, we were like, "Oh my goodness. Okay. Well-" And then it was all history from there.
Christa Hein: So, I imagine there's this pretty big gap between standing beside the pond thinking, "This is it," and then actually opening a school. So, let's talk about what happened next. So, once you had the property, how quickly did all of this have to come together? Then what did that first year actually look like behind the scenes?
Jenna & Gillian: Yeah, it was a bit tricky because we didn't get the keys to the [00:17:00] property, which needed a lot of work- It was August 1st, I think, so we had 30 days before school started. So, we were actually trying to sell the vision and get enrollment before we even had the keys to the property that you could even take someone a tour on.
So, we were doing it old school. We were putting up flyers in town, we were having local meetings at our cafes, and we were just selling a vision that we had. And that's when our mom moved as well. And Jenna, they had to pack up their families, which was huge, somewhere where they lived their whole lives, and come out here.
And so, during that time, there's lots of logistics you need to figure out, the legalities, the insurance, and your parent handbook. So, we had a list going and everyone was doing something off the to-do list, which we're still doing today, right? Yeah. Divide and conquering in that sense.
And then we had 30 days to get ready before the school actually opened, which was absolutely insane. We were here 24/7. We are really thankful. Our whole entire family [00:18:00] was working, getting things set up, fixing things, yard work, like so many people painting, cleaning everything up. A lot of people have given so much time that, it's our faces on the school, but there's a huge team behind us that have volunteered lots and lots of time to make this happen.
So, we closed the property, I think it was end of March. That was when it was like, "Okay, we're going to go." So, it was six months from closing from when, "Okay, we've got this property," till when we opened. So, before we got the keys was a lot of the paperwork stuff, all of the sort of behind-the-scenes stuff. So, we had a few months to do that.
And then once we arrived here, for those 30 days it was just we had all this kind of planned ahead of time. We had the yurt scheduled to be delivered and we just went hard on the renovation side. We had one yurt, we had one classroom, we had 15 students. Curriculum was the last thing we thought about because it was something that we were the most comfortable with. And I'd been teaching project-based for a while. I'm like, "These kids have ideas. We have to wait and see what [00:19:00] they're going to say."
So, we had a multi-age group. It was two separate groups that we had, and we started the year and it was absolutely amazing. We did so much that first year looking back. We did a lot of projects with the kids. We built a tree house. We did the maple syrup. So, it was hit the ground running, and everyone was just all hands on deck at the start until we could really figure out who does what around here.
Now we're in a good groove of that, but the first year was just everyone all hands on deck all the time, supporting each other if someone gets sick, or if someone needs help. So, it's pretty crazy to think back to that time and to where we are now.
Christa Hein: So, you mentioned all those behind-the-scenes things. For those of us here in the US who don't know the rules in Ontario, what does it actually take to open a private school like Infinity? Were there licenses, inspections, requirements you had to navigate, or do alternative schools operate pretty independently there?
Jenna & Gillian: Yeah. Well, these micro schools are still, like, [00:20:00] new in that it's really starting. So they're popping up more and more. So, all of this is actually changing as we speak right now because they're noticing that this is happening more and more. There's a big movement in education now, and it's happening a lot, I think, post-COVID. So, we're very fortunate that Ontario is a homeschool, alternative school-friendly province in Canada. And that just happens to be lucky in our sense.
So, we just had to get a private school number through our Ministry of Education, and you can choose to be inspected or you can choose to be uninspected, and that just has to be disclosed to parents. And we chose uninspected for that. So, luckily we're just in a province that is quite friendly to that.
So, you pay $300, you have to have a minimum of five school-aged kids, and then you can operate. There's no accreditation for elementary as well. If you were doing this for high school, it's a whole different ballgame of paperwork you have to fill out. But essentially, that's the minimum requirement is to get your school number, you pay a fee, you obviously have to fill out some forms, but you have to have at least five [00:21:00] school-aged kids in your program, which we had.
And we have our own documentation and assessment stuff that we do. But we are very fortunate where we live. Around the world, there are a lot stricter rules in different areas.
Christa Hein: So, I'm curious because I think other people who are wanting to start something from scratch, the finances are a really big concern. So, I'm just curious, financially, how did you make the leap? Did you self-fund as a family, or bring in investors, or borrow, or just start with the knowledge that tuition was going to be coming in?
Jenna & Gillian: Yeah, a little bit of both, but we mostly self-funded. So, we sold two properties back in Ottawa and got this one. And we did have a little bit of family investment, and then a little bit of a loan as well. Yeah, and then we had, obviously, tuition.
Now that we're up and running, it's like, okay, how much is tuition? Chipping away at the loan as well, and then also being able to pay our teachers well is a big thing. And then this is why we also have our consulting, [00:22:00] too. We love what we do and sharing around the world, but it is another income stream that's coming in because we want the school to run. We don't want to have to up-charge all of the parents either. That's not something we want to do, but we also want to pay our staff well. And then obviously cover the cost of the loan that we took out for this.
One of the biggest barriers, actually, there's so many teachers, I notice this in healthcare too, so many nurses, but so many teachers who want to leave. But in Canada, teachers are paid very well. We have a really good pension and benefits. So that is the biggest barriers for teachers leaving and actually coming and joining something like this or starting something like this. It's like this golden handcuffs that's there. It's like, "Oh, I want to so bad, I just can't financially. I can't do it."
And I think for us in that moment of grief, we didn't care about finances. Yeah. Nothing matters in those moments when your world falls apart. It's I could be poor, but if I have a purpose and a passion, and I can rest my head easy at night or when my time is done, that's when it all fell away for us. Yeah. Exactly. That golden handcuff. [00:23:00] Yeah.
Anyone who opens a school, it is financially tricky to do things, and we've tried to figure out different ways. Are we going to sever off an acre that can fund this part two? Because we are on 17 acres. And then the consulting as well. So, we're trying to get creative in different ways for income streams to come in so that we can support this. ecause, yeah, that's a huge barrier for most people.
Christa Hein: So, when I first found Infinity on Instagram, I actually assumed I was looking at something closer to a preschool nature program, and then I looked you up and realized that, no, you have children all the way up through grade six right now, and you're growing toward grade eight. So, I want to understand what school really looks like there.
So, what would I see if I showed up on an ordinary morning? Can you walk me through a day at Infinity from when the kids arrive until they go home?
Jenna & Gillian: Yeah, so our older kids, we do explicit lessons and hands-on learning. So right when we come in the morning, we [00:24:00] do have our first academic block. So, we come in, it's either math or literacy. So, in the morning, say we do a literacy block, it will be one explicit instruction based on a skill that they're learning.
If they're learning to read, maybe it's a sound blend or something like that. And then their next lesson is with their teacher based on their project. So whatever project we're working on, maybe it's building a skating rink and obviously there's literacy in every single project that we do, whether it's reading about how to build a skating rink or preparing interview questions to ask people who have built a skating rink before because we haven't, or if it's writing a procedural writing piece, there are so many different literacy concepts happening.
So, they have one explicit lesson that's just on a skill, and then the whole purpose to having it transfer that knowledge to the project literacy lesson as well. So, it's almost two lessons in the morning, one very explicit, maybe on a certain sound they're learning, and then also with their project as well.[00:25:00] So, those go hand-in-hand in the morning.
And then we move out to the outdoors, and I'm just going to go with the skating rink because it was probably their favorite project this year. And then we do the hands-on work of what needs to be done with the skating rink there as well. So, whether it's shoveling it, flooding it again, building it, measuring the tarp was a huge thing. There's so much math involved through this process as well, and also teamwork, collaboration, discipline.
So maybe we're highlighting one of our skills from our framework. Discipline was a very big one with the skating rink because you have to maintain it, and sometimes you don't want to do those tedious things that take a long time, and you're really cold, and you're staying there patiently waiting but we are a team and we do it together. So, putting in that effort and having that discipline so that we can have the outcome in the end as well.
So maybe we're highlighting a skill and there's some sort of hands-on work that goes with the project. Then we move into free play time, too, so outdoor project time, free play. We are very big on free play for all ages. In public [00:26:00] system, it's like they turn six years old and then play just gets cut off, no more play anymore. And play is very big for your mental health. It's self-regulating, and that's where actually a lot of projects get sparked from. As the guides, we're always observing what they're playing with, and then we pull that in to make it in projects as well.
Most of our projects actually start with kids just coming up telling us what they want to do or through things that we observe. So free play, movement, and then we have our lunch as a group. And then after lunch is when we do our second academic block, and if we did literacy in the morning, it would be math after lunch.
So, they have an explicit lesson with number sense or something, and then they also have a lesson swinging back to the project. So maybe we were calculating perimeter or area or volume, flow rate, financial literacy for the skating rink. That would be brought into the lesson there.
And we do have a digital platform that they use as well for practice questions, a personalized platform that they use. And then [00:27:00] after that again, it would be more outdoor, maybe it could be a workshop that has nothing to do with the skating rink project at all. So, either back to a outdoor project or outdoor learning time. Maybe it's building fires, maybe it's cleaning out the garden beds. It's something again outdoors. And then they have free play again.
So, it's two academic blocks, two project blocks, like hands-on project outdoors, and two free play blocks as well. Yeah, and you can put a lot on the literacy and numeracy, which is always in every project.
But then we also, too, will intentionally weave in geography and science and all those things as well. Those are the two that happen every single day, but every project we're bringing in some of those social sciences, some of the history, geography, art, whatever makes sense. So, that's always being blended into the projects. People are always going, "Oh, what about the social sciences?" Well, it's everywhere as well, right? Like, we did a lot of geography for that one, too. And a lot of weather, so that's all incorporated, too into the project time.
Christa Hein: Which is so [00:28:00] beautiful, because that's really how life works anyway, right?
Jenna & Gillian: Yeah, exactly. We're really trying to replicate what real life looks like and how can we make that more intertwined with school. And then that's why we've been creating the My Binder and application systems for our teachers because we don't follow a scope and sequence, we're following the kids. And because we don't teach in compartmentalized subjects, that can make planning a little bit trickier for the teacher.
So, we have been working on implementing the systems to support teachers through that process because hands-on learning with the kids is a lot. This type of planning is a lot more difficult than just following the next page in a textbook, right? Because it is us being very creative and curious. The whole role as a teacher has changed, so we're working on those systems right now as well.
Christa Hein: So, when you deliberately teach things that we don't necessarily think of as a school, like woodworking or cooking or gardening or sewing or building, I'd love [00:29:00] for you to pull back the curtain a little bit for the educators listening.
How do those experiences actually work with the children? Are there different ages doing specific things? Do you have special spaces created? Certain people maybe that teach those skills? Can you give us just a behind-the-scenes of that?
Jenna & Gillian: Yeah. Well, small class sizes is a non-negotiable for this type of learning. You can't have 30 kids running around and trying to be doing sewing and cooking and baking. So small class sizes is number one. And yes, we do bring in experts for projects as well. So, one of their grandmas was really good at sewing, so she came in and helped them sew. So, we do incorporate a lot of experts in our community and our families to come in and help teach those things.
We also think it's better to group kids sometimes based on interest rather than age. Because if you're doing a sewing project, and lots of kids will be interested, and some just aren't, right? And that's okay. That's why we have different options or [00:30:00] projects going on, so that it's the kids that are truly engaged in it, because behaviors happen more when kids are not engaged, obviously, right? So, providing spaces, too, where if you're sewing, there's only can be one person on the sewing machine.
So, having a small group, and then intentionally planning what other kind of activity that's related to sewing or what preparation can they do independently while I'm here, I think is very big. What are they doing if they're not sitting at the sewing machine right now? What can they do independently for their age that's related to the topic?
We also make sure when we're doing things like this, I always like to have a lesson to start with and talk about if we're talking about math and measurement when it's coming to sewing, I always do that first and not last. We were sewing little sails on sailboats because one of the students made that for their entrepreneurial project. They had two sticks and a sail, so they were talking about triangles. So, before we get into sewing, you pull the kids over and do your lessons on [00:31:00] triangles or for the older kids, the different angles on different triangles, if that's what you're focusing on.
We do that first and then move into the hands-on stuff. We find that flow works best. Otherwise, they're having fun and everything, and trying to rein them back after the activity or during it can be a little bit tricky, too. So, getting very intentional on what academic part you want to teach, do that first.
And we're very big on not making kids do it if they're just not interested in it. When it comes to cooking and baking though, we always do say to our kids that, "If you want to eat it, you have to help in some way," right? You can't just go off and play and then enjoy, the healthy cinnamon buns we're eating. So how are you going to contribute? And you have to put effort in. We're very big on praising effort that's put in as well. And just planning in that sense, having kind of different stations is important.
Christa Hein: Great. So, at this point, I want to head outside because you don't simply describe Infinity as a nature school, you call it a biodynamic farm school. [00:32:00] So I want to start really basic. When you say Infinity is a biodynamic farm, what does biodynamic mean, and how is that different from simply saying you're organic or regenerative?
Jenna & Gillian: Yeah, so I'm really inspired by Steiner's work, Zach Bush, all that. I find it truly fascinating. And I think to me, biodynamic farming is like a mental approach to nature, to ourselves, in that the farm, the land, the world is a living, breathing ecosystem that has inputs. And that is always looking for biodiversity and healing.
So, if you have weeds in your garden, well, what is that weed trying to do for your soil? If you have too many slugs, why is there so many slugs? What input can you bring in? So that it's this living, breathing system, and realizing that it's a terrain-based approach to health, in that if there's something that's going on in your garden, it means that one of the inputs is off.
You don't need chemical fertilizer or to be micromanaging or controlling it, [00:33:00] knowing that it's always trying to heal. What is it trying to do? So, to me, it's just a real big approach to how nature is and how it thrives.
Christa Hein: So, how do the students fit in the day-to-day life of the farm? What kinds of responsibilities and routines are a part of their day?
Jenna & Gillian: So, in the spring we're always doing chicks and gardening and planting. They help with sort of the animal chores throughout the year as well. We have goats and we have chickens who are on pasture and who are free-ranged and moved around.
We're also still really building out the biodynamic farm with the kids on the property. Our five-year vision is to continue to build out this farm, to create a silvopasture, to get the fencing so that we can continue to build it out. But for right now, it's really teaching them that whatever inputs you have is going to affect the larger ecosystem of nature that is always searching for biodiversity and healing.
And then how can we use that to our advantage when we're planting, when the [00:34:00] animals are out, and things like that. Instead of needing artificial inputs to control nature, how can we use it?
Christa Hein: Hmm. Yes. So, one thing I noticed when I was exploring your website is that you don't just talk about academics, you also spend a lot of time talking about wellbeing, emotional intelligence, and helping children thrive. And that feels like this thread that's running through everything that you're talking about, so I'd love to explore that a little more.
Jenna, I'm curious, after spending so many years caring for babies and families, are there things you notice about children that the average educator might miss? And has that changed the way you've designed the environment there at Infinity?
Jenna & Gillian: I don't know that it's necessarily my nursing background that's got me there. I don't think I was taught a lot of the things about health and vitality through nursing. I think it's a passion that was sparked on the side as I was seeing lots of problems.
But I would say that our approach is that when your child is healthy and [00:35:00] vital, they're going to learn, they're going to be curious, they're going to be able to do all these tasks. So, what do we need as human beings and as a part of nature to be healthy and thrive and be vital so that we can learn, so that we can be the best versions of ourselves?
So, I think that certainly drives a lot of our environment here. And even the Ontario curriculum talks about your environment being your second teacher. So, I think for us, understanding that being outside in nature, touching the grass, grounding, being in a forest, how it regulates your nervous system, how it sets you up for success and your health, I think that certainly drives how we set up the environment here.
We also talk about doing time audits, like, looking at the week, and how much time is spent outdoors, how much time is spent following your passion, because those two things, if those become disconnected, that's where disease kind of starts to happen. So how much time are we dedicating to those things? How much time is dedicated to explicit instruction? How much [00:36:00] time is dedicated to teaching about a skill or self-regulation?
So, we really are reflective on that, and we want to make sure that we stay in alignment what we know to be true and what's truly happening on a day-to-day basis. Because what's happened in public education is that we've just become so out of alignment that we're scrambling for Band-Aid solutions. And it's busy with the kids here, so we have to be very intentional about the environment and our spaces, but also the flow of day and what children are diving into and curious about and learning about as well.
Nutrition is very important to us. We understand that you don't give kids artificial candy with red dye as a reward at the end of the day. All of the things that we feed our kids, and we celebrate birthdays, and we have treats, but they're all homemade, they're all organic. They're going to feed and fuel their bodies and their brains and their souls. So that's really big for us.
We're very mindful about that. And getting them to really appreciate what nature has. Maple syrup is a huge thing. It's so delicious. It's sweet, but it comes from the [00:37:00] earth, and how is that going to fuel your body differently from something else? I think that understanding of health is integrated into how we work here and what we're trying to get the kids to appreciate and to really understand.
Christa Hein: So, I want to ask about your mom, Cathy, who sounds like she was a big part of the school. It looks like she has a healing background as well as a sound healer, but also as a French teacher. And I see that you're also a French immersion school where half of the day French is spoken.
So, I'm curious how that all comes together, why you felt it was important to have the French immersion school, and also, is sound healing ever making its way into the school? All of that just fascinates me.
Jenna & Gillian: Yeah. We came from Ottawa, so we all speak French and went to French immersion as well. And learning another language as well also develops higher order thinking, and there's lots of benefits of it, so we wanted to expose our children to that as well.
[00:38:00] So we do have all of us speaking French for about 50% of the day, and we teach French language first, all of our letter sounds to our students. And it's all based on what they're interested in as well. So, every project we just weave in French vocabulary, French content, maybe they do a little French writing piece as well. So that's how we've woven into the French.
So, whatever we're doing or whatever topic we're exploring, we don't follow a book of how to teach French. We just speak it and get really immersed in it through things that we're interested in, the kids' experiences that they're having here.
And then for our mom, she taught for a very long time. She taught French and she has come into the kind of this new space where, tapping into breathwork and sound healing, and how do those things benefit our body and what is the science of sound, and what are sound frequencies?
And a lot of our students are interested in it. It actually started with her playing the sound bowls for our pre-K students last year at nap time. And she just plays them and then [00:39:00] they eventually fall asleep there. And then she brought it into the classrooms for the kids, to take time to be mindful, take a breath, listen to the sounds. And she's just integrating it in to the classrooms there because there are benefits of it as well, of our kids are running around all the time, but taking the time to stop and lay down and rest and be reflective and be grateful.
So, kids have actually asked questions about it, so it's something that the kids have dove into even further for some of them that are really interested in it. Some of them have tried playing them and they like it. And then, for example, the science of sound is a grade four expectation in science and public education. But this is something our kids are just interested in and that they're exploring, so we tap into that. We don't do grade one you do this, grade two you do that, grade three you get sound bowls. It's just exposed to everyone, and you see certain kids get interested in it more than others which allows them to explore that as well.
Christa Hein: So, one thing that fascinates me is that some of the most important things that [00:40:00] children learn are also the hardest to measure. So how do you know when a child is growing in confidence or leadership or emotional intelligence? And then I think that also nicely leads into something you're building now, because you're not only thinking about how your school does this, you're thinking about how other schools can do it, too.
Jenna & Gillian: Yeah. Well, you're right, these are the subjective, quote unquote, "soft skills", right? And I think a big reason why, well, there's many reasons why they don't get assessed in public school is because they are so subjective. So that was our goal and our mission over the past two years is to really set up a system where we can measure growth.
And again, it's not about someone getting a straight A's and the sort of confidence, leadership, blah, blah, blah. It's over the years seeing growth. That's what we're seeing is what we see through the project process is, yes, there's academics, that's foundational, but we see a lot of emotions that kids feel through the process of learning. We see [00:41:00] a lot of skills come out that we want to document that are about building character. Which are so important to people's success, especially in today's day and age.
And, about seven years ago in public education, they were trying to actually make this change as well. Michael Fullan's work was, a couple of the school boards purchased his work. It's called Deep Learning, and his learning was all about developing the 21st century skills. And so, it was all about skill-based. And the board spends thousands and thousands of dollars of purchasing all the resources and getting the professional development for it, and it just fizzled out.
So, he had creativity, collaboration, communication, lots of skills that are hard to assess. But what happens is if you have large class sizes, how am I supposed to assess all of those things that I can't just do on a worksheet? Well, you have to take observations and conversations with the kids, and that's quite literally impossible when you have 30 plus kids in a room, plus all the other expectations to get done.
So again, it just gets put [00:42:00] on the back burner, even though it's probably one of the most important things. So, what we've said here is, “Well, how are we going to create that and make sure it stays on the front burner just as important as academics?” So, we thought of it as what do we value here? And then what sub-skills and micro skills do kids need to develop to instill those values?
So, for one of the examples, one of our values is vitality, and under that is mindset, emotional regulation, physical conditioning, health, and connection. And all of those sub-skills have micro skills. Under mindset we have resilience, we have confidence, and we have open-mindedness, risk taking. So what we've had to do is we had to define those things, and we've created continuums on them. Because we want clarity and cohesion between our staff of what we are observing.
And that's another problem in public education. There's lots of words being thrown around, but people have different perceptions of what they mean, so there's no consistency. We need cohesion, [00:43:00] consistency, and clarity so that we know we can actually measure these things with any sort of validity. And create the system to be able to do this.
So, step one was creating what are all of those skills that we do value here we want to assess. Step two, define all of them and create continuums on them because it's a progression of growth, and our job is to provide feedback and experiences to develop those skills through the project-based process. And then step three is create the system where it's possible for a teacher to actually observe and document that learning which has been our biggest pain point since starting.
And we knew since starting if we do not have a system in place to be able to do that, our teachers are going to burn out. This is not sustainable, and it's going to be very hard to train teachers and get that consistency. So that's what we've been working on.
Christa Hein: So that is your app that's called MyBinder?
Jenna & Gillian: Yes. Yeah, our actual binder, it's based on our curriculum framework, which is all of the skills that we are [00:44:00] assessing here.
Christa Hein: Is the app what led you into expanding your vision into more than just building the academy? Because I notice that now you're also offering speaking and coaching other educators and developing memberships and consulting. Is the app what made you realize that you wanted to help more than just the families at your school?
Jenna & Gillian: I think it happened organically. Yeah. So, we would get a lot of emails, a lot of DMs "Hey, I'm here. I want to start. Can I do this? Help me. Can I come? Can you meet with me? Can you do all this?" And we're running a full-time school. We would love to sit down and talk to people all day, to be like, “Do this. We'd love for you to come." But we just don't have the time to do that. We don't have the capacity because we're running this program.
So, it just happened like, oh, there's a need here. They're reaching out to us. We have so many people around the world, so let's create a system where we can do that, that's sustainable for us, and that we can actually provide something of value to those people who really want to start something, or who already have something but are looking for [00:45:00] a little more project-based stuff.
And then what it came down to for us is, if someone is starting a school or wants to do something similar to this vision for education, you have to have the curriculum framework, and you have to have a system, which is the app, that will help support it. Without those two things, I don't think your program can truly run. It can run, but it won't be as efficient for you.
So, those are the two things that we're really focusing on sharing with other people, so that they can use. And the best part about everything that we do is we make sure everything is customizable. So, it's not you have to use Infinity Academy's curriculum framework. You can take what we've done and edit it, put your logo, your branding on it, and make it your own. Because we know so many people are already doing amazing things as well. But we want to give people either a starting point, something we wish we had, or something to beef up their program, or bring more credibility to what they're doing as well.
Christa Hein: So, you mentioned that people are reaching out to you from around the world, which leads [00:46:00] in perfectly to the next thing that I wanted to ask you about. Because I originally found you on Instagram, and then I looked at your follower count and thought, "What is happening? You have somewhere around 47,000 followers."
So, take me back in that, did you intentionally set out to grow a big social media audience, or did you start posting what you were doing and then suddenly something just took off?
Jenna & Gillian: Well, we always said from the beginning that there's this big wave starting in education, a change for education. And there are a lot of people who maybe haven't seen it yet who know deep down "Okay, yes, I know that my children, my child needs to thrive as a whole human being, but what about the academics? But what about this? But how do they sit at a desk?"
And then we had all these questions. There's people who are still tentative to take that leap with their kids because these are the things we love the most, and all we've known is public education and that system. That we're trying to build trust and show people that there is another way. So that's what led us to start our initial [00:47:00] page.
So, this was three years ago now. We had it started, and we had put six months into it, and we had a really great local following. We had about 1,400 people following along our story. And we took a break over March break. We were in Florida, and our account got hacked. Gillian’s old account got hacked. This Instagram account got hacked. Gillian did everything to get it back. We were devastated.
We had built this following, and we were on the phone, I was still in Florida, Gillian was here. We were both upset about it because we had put a lot of work into it, and we had lost it all. Someone just hacked it for this, I don't know, stupid thing. And Gillian looks at me, she's like, "This is happening for a reason." Yeah. I was like, "You think?" I'm like, "Yeah, you're right. It probably is happening for a reason."
And then, what was it? A few days later you made a reel? Yeah, a few days later I made a reel, just raw, of just our story of what we've done. And I actually showed it to Jenna, and I was like, [00:48:00] "Should I post this? I don't know.” Sometimes people think “education” and we all have to be in suit and ties. She's like, "Should I make it more professional? Should I put a suit on?" I'm like, "No, Gillian. Be you. I love this. You... people don't want that anymore." And so I said, "Okay, fine." I just posted it, and then it got two million views…
Christa Hein: Oh my gosh!
Jenna & Gillian: it popped things off. And I think a lot of people resonated with the story of what we were doing, and are wanting to do, this type of education as well, and stepping into it. So that kind of led us into, okay, this is a sign. Just keep sharing organically of what we're doing and why we're doing it and what our background is. And just showing people of how it actually unfolds here.
Because again, like Jenna said, intuitively everybody knows there's something off with education, but we want to showcase that in a way. So yeah, we started sharing the projects that we're doing, and that it is possible to do academics and hands-on learning at the same time. And so, to make change in education, our job is to go out and create it, and then [00:49:00] show it's possible. So that's what we're doing.
Christa Hein: I mean, that really speaks to how strong the demand is for this back to the land type of education.
Jenna & Gillian: Yeah.
Christa Hein: So, to wrap up today, when you think back to the two of you talking about this school years ago and then everything it took to finally say yes and build it, what do you think your brother would say if he could see you and your family and what you've created with Infinity Academy today?
Jenna & Gillian: I think he would be… I think he'd be really happy. I think he'd be cheering us on. I think he'd be like... Sometimes we have to get hit over the head to get a message, right? He'd be like, "Come on, guys." "Gillian, come on. Jenna, come on." Like, "Don't worry about that stuff anymore. Keep going." Yeah. "Keep going."
Yeah. He would... Yeah, he's cheering us on. He's telling us to keep going even though when things feel hard. Nothing about this journey has [00:50:00] been, you know, rainbows and sunshine. Yeah. It's been very up and down and challenging. But yeah, he would just be like, "You did it. That was our dream." He really wanted to have a family compound. He wanted to have a family compound. He was a nature boy, nature lover. And so, yeah, he would be just so happy that we're doing that right now. Yeah.
Christa Hein: Thank you so much for sharing your beautiful story. I think it's so easy to look at a place like Infinity and see the beautiful spaces and the amazing things that children are doing. But hearing the story behind why it exists and how it even started gives it just such a much deeper meaning. Jenna and Gillian, thank you so much for joining me today and sharing all your stories
Jenna & Gillian: Well, thank you so much for having me. Yeah. Thank you so much. It's been a pleasure.
Christa Hein: Absolutely. What I really love about the story of your school is that you didn't simply swap a traditional classroom for an outdoor one. You asked a much bigger question: What does a child actually need [00:51:00] to become a capable, curious, healthy human being? And then you built the school around your answers. Such a beautiful thing.
To our listeners, I hope today's conversation reminds you that farm education isn't just about what we teach. It's also about the spaces we create, the experiences we offer, and how we encourage confidence, curiosity, and connection. Whether you're working with preschoolers or adults, I think there's something really powerful about designing programs that help people truly thrive.
If you'd like to learn more about Jenna, Gillian, and Infinity Academy, I'll include all their information in today's show notes. Until next time, keep growing, keep teaching, and keep connecting people with the land
Christa Hein: Thank you for joining me on another episode of the Farm Educator’s Roadmap. If this episode resonated with you, please follow the show and share it with someone who could use a little clarity as they plan their own [00:52:00] paths in farm education.
If you could use a little clarity, there's now a tool that might help, the “Discover Your Farm Education Path Quiz.” I'll put the link in the show notes. Thanks for listening, and I'll catch you in the next episode.
